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Investors have stock. Dividends and stock buybacks move idle cash out of the corporation and back into the hands of investors. Investors now have cash instead

Investors have stock. Dividends and stock buybacks move idle cash out of the corporation and back into the hands of investors. Investors now have cash instead of stock. Those investors are better at distributing cash to good investments than Fedex or Apple or Google is. The cash doesn't get redistributed from the non-1% to the 1%. The idle cash that corporations have aren't generating jobs.

Majromax 7y ago
> The idle cash that corporations have aren't generating jobs. But that contradicts the claimed raison d'être for the 2018 tax cut: that corporate direct investment was being restrained by corporate income taxes. A call to lower corporate income taxes so more money could flow to investors would have been consistent, both with economic orthodoxy and with the observed outcome.
- appleiigs 7y ago
  > more money could flow to investors Is that a bad thing? I'm thinking it is good. Why do people want higher taxes for? I'm thinking lower taxes reduces the amount of money going to the government is good. The government is horribly inefficient due things such as bureaucracy, corruption, etc. No matter where they operate, it hasn't been good. Whether it's US or China, the gov't is not where I think money should go.
  - mthoms 7y ago
    >No matter where they operate, it hasn't been good. That's what the rich hand powerful want you to think. But the facts don't support it. Look at any of the other top western democracies. You know, the ones with longer lifespans, more upward mobility, happier populations, better infrastructure, better education, and so on. I'm not suggesting that those countries are perfect or that there aren't gross inefficiencies, but the widespread belief that good government is basically impossible, so why even try is mostly an American (right wing) phenomenon. Other top-tier western style democracies, despite their many imperfections, are doing just fine.
    - appleiigs 7y ago
      Western societies have been more democratic... and more capitalist. If you take high taxes to the extreme (eg. eliminate all billionaires like Bernie Sanders recommends), you get closer to communism which hasn't done as well.
      - mthoms 7y ago
        I'm not even sure what you're arguing anymore. Communism is bad? I agree. It does nothing to support your assertion that any and all governments are inherently bad.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        appleiigs 7y ago
        We were having a tax discussion. We both agree that gov't has gross inefficiencies, so I'm suggesting funding the inefficient organization less. When I said "it hasn't been good" I was talking in the context about efficiency. In my next comment, I again was talking about taxes. I used communism as an example of a high tax system. I also wanted to point out that western style democracies which you call good, lean toward capitalism, where gov't have a smaller role in society - which I am using to support my lower tax argument.
      - omegaworks 7y ago
        >If you take high taxes to the extreme (eg. eliminate all billionaires like Bernie Sanders recommends), you get closer to communism which hasn't done as well. At the height of the American war effort, the top tax bracket exceeded 90% of individual income[1] this dramatically decreased inequality and established the modern middle class. It was also arguably the most stable and prosperous time for families, with most able to sustain with a single-income earner. Bernie Sanders suggests that we respond to the ongoing climate crisis with a similar level of world-war scale effort with the hopes of averting even worse, more destabilizing effects. 1. https://www.urban.org/research/publication/how-federal-income-tax-rates-work https://www.urban.org/research/publication/how-federal-incom...

Majromax 7y ago

> The idle cash that corporations have aren't generating jobs. But that contradicts the claimed raison d'être for the 2018 tax cut: that corporate direct investment was being restrained by corporate income taxes. A call to lower corporate income taxes so more money could flow to investors would have been consistent, both with economic orthodoxy and with the observed outcome.

appleiigs 7y ago
> more money could flow to investors Is that a bad thing? I'm thinking it is good. Why do people want higher taxes for? I'm thinking lower taxes reduces the amount of money going to the government is good. The government is horribly inefficient due things such as bureaucracy, corruption, etc. No matter where they operate, it hasn't been good. Whether it's US or China, the gov't is not where I think money should go.
- mthoms 7y ago
  >No matter where they operate, it hasn't been good. That's what the rich hand powerful want you to think. But the facts don't support it. Look at any of the other top western democracies. You know, the ones with longer lifespans, more upward mobility, happier populations, better infrastructure, better education, and so on. I'm not suggesting that those countries are perfect or that there aren't gross inefficiencies, but the widespread belief that good government is basically impossible, so why even try is mostly an American (right wing) phenomenon. Other top-tier western style democracies, despite their many imperfections, are doing just fine.
  - appleiigs 7y ago
    Western societies have been more democratic... and more capitalist. If you take high taxes to the extreme (eg. eliminate all billionaires like Bernie Sanders recommends), you get closer to communism which hasn't done as well.
    - mthoms 7y ago
      I'm not even sure what you're arguing anymore. Communism is bad? I agree. It does nothing to support your assertion that any and all governments are inherently bad.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - appleiigs 7y ago
        We were having a tax discussion. We both agree that gov't has gross inefficiencies, so I'm suggesting funding the inefficient organization less. When I said "it hasn't been good" I was talking in the context about efficiency. In my next comment, I again was talking about taxes. I used communism as an example of a high tax system. I also wanted to point out that western style democracies which you call good, lean toward capitalism, where gov't have a smaller role in society - which I am using to support my lower tax argument.
    - omegaworks 7y ago
      >If you take high taxes to the extreme (eg. eliminate all billionaires like Bernie Sanders recommends), you get closer to communism which hasn't done as well. At the height of the American war effort, the top tax bracket exceeded 90% of individual income[1] this dramatically decreased inequality and established the modern middle class. It was also arguably the most stable and prosperous time for families, with most able to sustain with a single-income earner. Bernie Sanders suggests that we respond to the ongoing climate crisis with a similar level of world-war scale effort with the hopes of averting even worse, more destabilizing effects. 1. https://www.urban.org/research/publication/how-federal-income-tax-rates-work https://www.urban.org/research/publication/how-federal-incom...