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I've lamented the lack of true public property for a long time. I'm thinking about buying abandoned property in various places, at very low cost, and opening th

I've lamented the lack of true public property for a long time. I'm thinking about buying abandoned property in various places, at very low cost, and opening them up to public use. It would be done through a non-profit land holding company with the stated mission of opening land and abandoned structures to public use. Enter at your own risk signs, and a brief description that this property is now open for any legal use would be the only changes. (Barring removal of true death traps)

GhostVII 7y ago
I don't think an "enter at your own risk" sign would be enough to protect you from lawsuits. Even if you win the lawsuit, it is still expensive.
vorpalhex 7y ago
And do you intend to do the regular cleanup and maintenance these areas need when they're opened to the public? Do you intend to clean up the literal human waste and trash on a regular basis? It's a nice idea to have truly public property, but the reality is that people destroy land, especially when it's not their own, and upkeep isn't free or even cheap. Add to that things like zoning, land use codes and restrictions, and taxes, and it's easy to understand why we've lost so much public land. It still exists, but it's hard to find now.
- pontifier 7y ago
  No, any activity on the property would be done by whoever was there. With no restriction, each person would be responsible for their own actions on the property.
  - baud147258 7y ago
    And then you'd fall in the issue of the tragedy of (unmanaged) commons. Trash everywhere.
carapace 7y ago
What about National Forests? Would you consider that true public property? > National Forest is a classification of protected and managed federal lands in the United States. National Forests are largely forest and woodland areas owned collectively by the American people through the federal government, and managed by the United States Forest Service, a division of the United States Department of Agriculture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Forest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Forest Also, consider Slab City: > Slab City, also called The Slabs, is a largely snowbird community in the Sonoran Desert located in Imperial County, California, 100 miles (161 km) northeast of San Diego and 169 miles (272 km) southeast of Los Angeles within the California Badlands, and used by recreational vehicle owners and squatters from across North America. > The site is both decommissioned and uncontrolled, and there is no charge for parking. The site has no official electricity, running water, sewers, toilets or trash pickup service.[3] Many residents use generators or solar panels to generate electricity. The closest body of civilization with proper law enforcement is approximately four miles southwest of Slab City in Niland where the residents often go to do basic shopping. As a result, the site is described by its inhabitants and news outlets like Vice News as a miniature de facto enclave of anarchy. It might be considered a kind of Temporary Autonomous Zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_Autonomous_Zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_Autonomous_Zone
- pontifier 7y ago
  I don't consider national forests true public property because of entry fees, scheduling camp grounds, restrictions on activity, and length of time you can be there. Also, remoteness is an issue. I really like the idea of slab city, and have talked to some people who have been there. I haven't been myself. I also love the idea of the Kowloon walled city and the tower of David as models for a public space without top down control.
  - carapace 7y ago
    I thought there were places where you could just drive or hike in and camp for up to three nights? FWIW, w/o restrictions you would have folks living there permanently. (I know because I totally would.) I guess the frontier really is closed, eh? - - - - I saw a BBC documentary on Kowloon and it scared the shit out of me, FWIW. - - - - Anyhow, Christopher Alexander's "Living Neighborhoods" made me realize that what I really want is a lively healthy living neighborhood. https://www.livingneighborhoods.org/ht-0/bln-exp.htm https://www.livingneighborhoods.org/ht-0/bln-exp.htm See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Village_Homes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Village_Homes

GhostVII 7y ago

I don't think an "enter at your own risk" sign would be enough to protect you from lawsuits. Even if you win the lawsuit, it is still expensive.

vorpalhex 7y ago

And do you intend to do the regular cleanup and maintenance these areas need when they're opened to the public? Do you intend to clean up the literal human waste and trash on a regular basis? It's a nice idea to have truly public property, but the reality is that people destroy land, especially when it's not their own, and upkeep isn't free or even cheap. Add to that things like zoning, land use codes and restrictions, and taxes, and it's easy to understand why we've lost so much public land. It still exists, but it's hard to find now.

pontifier 7y ago
No, any activity on the property would be done by whoever was there. With no restriction, each person would be responsible for their own actions on the property.
- baud147258 7y ago
  And then you'd fall in the issue of the tragedy of (unmanaged) commons. Trash everywhere.

carapace 7y ago

What about National Forests? Would you consider that true public property? > National Forest is a classification of protected and managed federal lands in the United States. National Forests are largely forest and woodland areas owned collectively by the American people through the federal government, and managed by the United States Forest Service, a division of the United States Department of Agriculture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Forest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Forest Also, consider Slab City: > Slab City, also called The Slabs, is a largely snowbird community in the Sonoran Desert located in Imperial County, California, 100 miles (161 km) northeast of San Diego and 169 miles (272 km) southeast of Los Angeles within the California Badlands, and used by recreational vehicle owners and squatters from across North America. > The site is both decommissioned and uncontrolled, and there is no charge for parking. The site has no official electricity, running water, sewers, toilets or trash pickup service.[3] Many residents use generators or solar panels to generate electricity. The closest body of civilization with proper law enforcement is approximately four miles southwest of Slab City in Niland where the residents often go to do basic shopping. As a result, the site is described by its inhabitants and news outlets like Vice News as a miniature de facto enclave of anarchy. It might be considered a kind of Temporary Autonomous Zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_Autonomous_Zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_Autonomous_Zone

pontifier 7y ago
I don't consider national forests true public property because of entry fees, scheduling camp grounds, restrictions on activity, and length of time you can be there. Also, remoteness is an issue. I really like the idea of slab city, and have talked to some people who have been there. I haven't been myself. I also love the idea of the Kowloon walled city and the tower of David as models for a public space without top down control.
- carapace 7y ago
  I thought there were places where you could just drive or hike in and camp for up to three nights? FWIW, w/o restrictions you would have folks living there permanently. (I know because I totally would.) I guess the frontier really is closed, eh? - - - - I saw a BBC documentary on Kowloon and it scared the shit out of me, FWIW. - - - - Anyhow, Christopher Alexander's "Living Neighborhoods" made me realize that what I really want is a lively healthy living neighborhood. https://www.livingneighborhoods.org/ht-0/bln-exp.htm https://www.livingneighborhoods.org/ht-0/bln-exp.htm See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Village_Homes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Village_Homes