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I have no doubts that whatever depravity a child can be submitted to that I can think up has or will have happened, and worse. There is certainly no god that pr

I have no doubts that whatever depravity a child can be submitted to that I can think up has or will have happened, and worse. There is certainly no god that prevents it, there is only us humans, and there are a handful of very sick individuals among the seven billion — that's just a statistical surety. > The two are not mutually exclusive. There we agree. But politicians worldwide do keep turning this into a 'think-of-the-children' fight. Only this month the Dutch minister of justice and security came up with exactly that argument for forcing Facebook to include a backdoor in WhatsApp — a plea indubitably neatly prompted by his colleagues in the US (cf. attorney general Barr's position on this topic).

jacquesm 7y ago
> and there are a handful of very sick individuals among the seven billion This is where you're wrong. Child porn is a substantial market, estimated to be in the billions of $ per year. It's a disproportionate amount compared to 'regular' porn because of the criminal element and the risks involved, just like illegal drugs are far more expensive than legal ones (in most parts of the world, anyway). Politicians abusing this to push their own agenda's are effectively also abusing these children... it's a fucked up world, that's for sure.
- zozbot234 7y ago
  Billions of dollars per year? On a world basis, that's quite insubstantial. And child abuse has always been around, unfortunately. Much of it probably goes unrecorded. Indeed, we only became aware of how bad the problem really was in the 1980s, due to the very fact that media of it was now being created and exchanged.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    I aspire to one day reach your level of cynicism but for now I will have to disagree with you that that is insubstantial, even on a world basis. Especially so because it is concentrated in only a very few countries where children have a very high chance of being exploited in this way. Have a read. https://www.rappler.com/nation/191219-philippines-top-global-source-child-pornography-unicef https://www.rappler.com/nation/191219-philippines-top-global...
    - zozbot234 7y ago
      > Especially so because it is concentrated in only a very few countries The meaningful question to ask is what's going on in those countries, that makes abuse so much more likely to occur there? It can't just be weak government, the Philippines aren't generally known for having weak or ineffective government.
    - miracle2k 7y ago
      With respect, which part of this article do you find interesting? In fact, it totally confirms my expectation going in, that the whole thing is empty PR phrases and bullshit numbers. I mean, take the very first line: "The Philippines has become a top global source of child pornography with around 80% of Filipino kids at risk of online sexual abuse or bullying, a global Unicef report said Tuesday, December 12." That's the definition of bullshit. What is the actual claim here? 80% at risk (so maybe nothing happened). Of what? Well, possibly "bullying". How is that related to child pornography? Ignoring the fact that the so-called "at risk" numbers are a favourite way to inflate the danger, because you have very wide latitude to make that number up, this claim is particularly incoherent. I can't even, in this article, find a solid claim that child abuse is a particularly wide-spread problem in the Philippines; never mind any evidence for such a claim.
      - jacquesm 7y ago
        The article quotes a Unicef report that I can't find a good source for, and the Phillipines being problematic in this respect is something that is not exactly a secret, it is where a lot of 'production' happens. I'm sure if you dig around a bit you'll find lots of corroboration for that datum. Anyway, I'm on the clock and only look at HN during breaks right now, if not for that I'd be more than happy to find better references.
        mistermann 7y ago
        > The article quotes a Unicef report that I can't find a good source for, And what does this Unicef report say? > and the Phillipines being problematic in this respect is something that is not exactly a secret Terms like "problematic" are excellent for persuasion, as they exclude any quantitative component as they invoke fear. > I'm sure if you dig around a bit you'll find lots of corroboration for that datum. Like the fear mongering article you linked? Look, I'm not advocating for the abuse of children, but when I'm being encouraged to worry about something, I prefer the warnings to have some basis in fact.
- concordDance 7y ago
  > estimated to be in the billions of $ per year. That seems ridiculously high unless it's millionares being charged $500k a pop. Got a source on that?
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    I find it strange to see the same comment being replied to by that the amount is insubstantial and that it is ridiculously high. Maybe the two of you can come to some kind of an arrangement?

jacquesm 7y ago

> and there are a handful of very sick individuals among the seven billion This is where you're wrong. Child porn is a substantial market, estimated to be in the billions of $ per year. It's a disproportionate amount compared to 'regular' porn because of the criminal element and the risks involved, just like illegal drugs are far more expensive than legal ones (in most parts of the world, anyway). Politicians abusing this to push their own agenda's are effectively also abusing these children... it's a fucked up world, that's for sure.

zozbot234 7y ago
Billions of dollars per year? On a world basis, that's quite insubstantial. And child abuse has always been around, unfortunately. Much of it probably goes unrecorded. Indeed, we only became aware of how bad the problem really was in the 1980s, due to the very fact that media of it was now being created and exchanged.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  I aspire to one day reach your level of cynicism but for now I will have to disagree with you that that is insubstantial, even on a world basis. Especially so because it is concentrated in only a very few countries where children have a very high chance of being exploited in this way. Have a read. https://www.rappler.com/nation/191219-philippines-top-global-source-child-pornography-unicef https://www.rappler.com/nation/191219-philippines-top-global...
  - zozbot234 7y ago
    > Especially so because it is concentrated in only a very few countries The meaningful question to ask is what's going on in those countries, that makes abuse so much more likely to occur there? It can't just be weak government, the Philippines aren't generally known for having weak or ineffective government.
  - miracle2k 7y ago
    With respect, which part of this article do you find interesting? In fact, it totally confirms my expectation going in, that the whole thing is empty PR phrases and bullshit numbers. I mean, take the very first line: "The Philippines has become a top global source of child pornography with around 80% of Filipino kids at risk of online sexual abuse or bullying, a global Unicef report said Tuesday, December 12." That's the definition of bullshit. What is the actual claim here? 80% at risk (so maybe nothing happened). Of what? Well, possibly "bullying". How is that related to child pornography? Ignoring the fact that the so-called "at risk" numbers are a favourite way to inflate the danger, because you have very wide latitude to make that number up, this claim is particularly incoherent. I can't even, in this article, find a solid claim that child abuse is a particularly wide-spread problem in the Philippines; never mind any evidence for such a claim.
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      The article quotes a Unicef report that I can't find a good source for, and the Phillipines being problematic in this respect is something that is not exactly a secret, it is where a lot of 'production' happens. I'm sure if you dig around a bit you'll find lots of corroboration for that datum. Anyway, I'm on the clock and only look at HN during breaks right now, if not for that I'd be more than happy to find better references.
      - mistermann 7y ago
        > The article quotes a Unicef report that I can't find a good source for, And what does this Unicef report say? > and the Phillipines being problematic in this respect is something that is not exactly a secret Terms like "problematic" are excellent for persuasion, as they exclude any quantitative component as they invoke fear. > I'm sure if you dig around a bit you'll find lots of corroboration for that datum. Like the fear mongering article you linked? Look, I'm not advocating for the abuse of children, but when I'm being encouraged to worry about something, I prefer the warnings to have some basis in fact.
concordDance 7y ago
> estimated to be in the billions of $ per year. That seems ridiculously high unless it's millionares being charged $500k a pop. Got a source on that?
- jacquesm 7y ago
  I find it strange to see the same comment being replied to by that the amount is insubstantial and that it is ridiculously high. Maybe the two of you can come to some kind of an arrangement?