5 ms·

Enlightenment will be achieved when we develop One True Platform which marries front end and backend development so that we don’t need to maintain complex frame

Enlightenment will be achieved when we develop One True Platform which marries front end and backend development so that we don’t need to maintain complex frameworks whose sole reason for existence is to make sure the computers don’t blow up passing data back and forth.

adonnjohn 7y ago
Any projects or murmurs alluding to tangible progress in that space?
- simplesleeper 7y ago
  WebAssembly?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- danielheath 7y ago
  ActiveFacts (the hard formalism parts are done and working, but almost none of the quality of life stuff is implemented yet) Core idea is to start from a human-authored formal domain model (sample models: https://github.com/cjheath/activefacts-examples/blob/master/cql/Warehousing.cql https://github.com/cjheath/activefacts-examples/blob/master/... ) and generate: * Database schemas - warehouse, OLAP, and (planned) the ETL script between them. * Application models (for ORM etc) - the rails one is implemented. * Code generation for serialization / deserialization from the shared domain model. * (planned) automatic query extraction from type-safe templates (you write your template in terms of the domain model, and it gets automatically compiled into a set of database queries which supply the data it needs). It's hard to learn, which is a hefty up-front price to pay, but it neatly avoids a ton of work 12+ months down the track.
inopinatus 7y ago
Now that the client is the MVC execution environment with the client-server interaction used mostly for data replication, plus some extra invokable server-side behaviours written in isomorphic code, we can congratulate ourselves on having more-or-less reinvented Lotus Notes.
tiborsaas 7y ago
Meteor.com is something like that. But more broadly, JavaScript has already achieved your vision :)
- zbentley 7y ago
  JavaScript is not a platform.
  - tiborsaas 7y ago
    It's in the heart of the web platform. Or should I have said "the browser engine"? It works well on backend and frontend. It's the one true platform with which you can bypass any OS.
    - zbentley 7y ago
      It's really not. GGP was complaining about endless complexity due to data plumbing and the client server split. Just because we've managed to lift all of our massively overengineered plumbing and state reconciliation into the same syntactic language doesn't mean it's all on any sort of unified platform, much less the same one. Other folks have pointed to Meteor as an example that gets close to that ideal, and I'd also suggest Phoenix/LiveView as something that moves in that direction. However, even those are not terribly popular and still require a lot more direct engagement with the client-server-browser rube Goldberg machine than they should, I think.
      - fulafel 7y ago
        The same language only as seen by the browsers.. Languages as seen by orogeammers (incl modern JS but also Clojure, ML, typescript etc) get compiled to compatible-JS.
  - gitgud 7y ago
    The distinction between language ecosystem like Javascript and a platform is blurry...
huehehue 7y ago
I'm not even convinced current data/networking conventions are optimal. Something will come out, probably not before 2025, that will make us think of traditional network requests (and definitely the DOM) as archaic.
- tonyarkles 7y ago
  Maybe this is making me sound old, but... the DOM is definitely not an optimal way of laying out a UI. It was designed for documents, and UIs have been repeatedly jammed into it until they fit. Newer CSS stuff (eg flexbox) help smooth that out a bit, but it’s still a gong show compared to actual UI toolkits (Qt, Cocoa, etc).
  - hollerith 7y ago
    I keep hearing that, but I've used many of UIs over the years, and I prefer the UIs of VS Code, github.com, or Gmail to any of the UIs I can think of built with "actual" UI toolkits. Maybe I like text more than the average user, though.
    - tonyarkles 7y ago
      Heh, I think it's a matter of preferences really. Emacs is my daily driver for an editor. I access Gmail via Thunderbird instead of the web UI. I do use Github via a browser, but pretty much just for doing code reviews or creating a new repository. Branching etc all happens on the command line. Looking at my current list of open apps on this machine, it's a bit of a mixed bag: - iMessage (native) - Chrome - iTerm2 (native) - Fusion 360 (uhhh something weird, dunno) - Spotify (Electron) - XCode (native) - Emacs (native-ish, maybe GTK?) - Thunderbird (native-ish, I think it's still laid out with XUL) - Slack (Electron) - Keybase (Electron) One thing to note: most of the time I am in the city, but have a second home in a rural area. When I'm out there on a spotty tethered connection, all of the above Electron apps have to get closed because they lose their minds when there's a spotty connection. Slack in particular likes to steal focus/pop up over everything when it is in a loop trying to reconnect. Spotify gets into a weird state where the UI gets unresponsive. Keybase doesn't really complain much.
code-is-code 7y ago
Shameless self promo: https://github.com/pubkey/rxdb https://github.com/pubkey/rxdb
discordance 7y ago
Check out http://anvil.works http://anvil.works
- Sendotsh 7y ago
  $50/mth for a PERSONAL site on their cloud hosting... $300/mth if you have 2 people developing a site together, and "Ask us for a quote" if you want to host it on your own server. Something tells me this isn't going to be the next standard in web apps.
  - nsomaru 7y ago
    Used this before, overpriced and slow

adonnjohn 7y ago

Any projects or murmurs alluding to tangible progress in that space?

simplesleeper 7y ago
WebAssembly?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
danielheath 7y ago
ActiveFacts (the hard formalism parts are done and working, but almost none of the quality of life stuff is implemented yet) Core idea is to start from a human-authored formal domain model (sample models: https://github.com/cjheath/activefacts-examples/blob/master/cql/Warehousing.cql https://github.com/cjheath/activefacts-examples/blob/master/... ) and generate: * Database schemas - warehouse, OLAP, and (planned) the ETL script between them. * Application models (for ORM etc) - the rails one is implemented. * Code generation for serialization / deserialization from the shared domain model. * (planned) automatic query extraction from type-safe templates (you write your template in terms of the domain model, and it gets automatically compiled into a set of database queries which supply the data it needs). It's hard to learn, which is a hefty up-front price to pay, but it neatly avoids a ton of work 12+ months down the track.

inopinatus 7y ago

Now that the client is the MVC execution environment with the client-server interaction used mostly for data replication, plus some extra invokable server-side behaviours written in isomorphic code, we can congratulate ourselves on having more-or-less reinvented Lotus Notes.

tiborsaas 7y ago

Meteor.com is something like that. But more broadly, JavaScript has already achieved your vision :)

zbentley 7y ago
JavaScript is not a platform.
- tiborsaas 7y ago
  It's in the heart of the web platform. Or should I have said "the browser engine"? It works well on backend and frontend. It's the one true platform with which you can bypass any OS.
  - zbentley 7y ago
    It's really not. GGP was complaining about endless complexity due to data plumbing and the client server split. Just because we've managed to lift all of our massively overengineered plumbing and state reconciliation into the same syntactic language doesn't mean it's all on any sort of unified platform, much less the same one. Other folks have pointed to Meteor as an example that gets close to that ideal, and I'd also suggest Phoenix/LiveView as something that moves in that direction. However, even those are not terribly popular and still require a lot more direct engagement with the client-server-browser rube Goldberg machine than they should, I think.
    - fulafel 7y ago
      The same language only as seen by the browsers.. Languages as seen by orogeammers (incl modern JS but also Clojure, ML, typescript etc) get compiled to compatible-JS.
- gitgud 7y ago
  The distinction between language ecosystem like Javascript and a platform is blurry...

huehehue 7y ago

I'm not even convinced current data/networking conventions are optimal. Something will come out, probably not before 2025, that will make us think of traditional network requests (and definitely the DOM) as archaic.

tonyarkles 7y ago
Maybe this is making me sound old, but... the DOM is definitely not an optimal way of laying out a UI. It was designed for documents, and UIs have been repeatedly jammed into it until they fit. Newer CSS stuff (eg flexbox) help smooth that out a bit, but it’s still a gong show compared to actual UI toolkits (Qt, Cocoa, etc).
- hollerith 7y ago
  I keep hearing that, but I've used many of UIs over the years, and I prefer the UIs of VS Code, github.com, or Gmail to any of the UIs I can think of built with "actual" UI toolkits. Maybe I like text more than the average user, though.
  - tonyarkles 7y ago
    Heh, I think it's a matter of preferences really. Emacs is my daily driver for an editor. I access Gmail via Thunderbird instead of the web UI. I do use Github via a browser, but pretty much just for doing code reviews or creating a new repository. Branching etc all happens on the command line. Looking at my current list of open apps on this machine, it's a bit of a mixed bag: - iMessage (native) - Chrome - iTerm2 (native) - Fusion 360 (uhhh something weird, dunno) - Spotify (Electron) - XCode (native) - Emacs (native-ish, maybe GTK?) - Thunderbird (native-ish, I think it's still laid out with XUL) - Slack (Electron) - Keybase (Electron) One thing to note: most of the time I am in the city, but have a second home in a rural area. When I'm out there on a spotty tethered connection, all of the above Electron apps have to get closed because they lose their minds when there's a spotty connection. Slack in particular likes to steal focus/pop up over everything when it is in a loop trying to reconnect. Spotify gets into a weird state where the UI gets unresponsive. Keybase doesn't really complain much.

code-is-code 7y ago

Shameless self promo: https://github.com/pubkey/rxdb https://github.com/pubkey/rxdb

discordance 7y ago

Check out http://anvil.works http://anvil.works

Sendotsh 7y ago
$50/mth for a PERSONAL site on their cloud hosting... $300/mth if you have 2 people developing a site together, and "Ask us for a quote" if you want to host it on your own server. Something tells me this isn't going to be the next standard in web apps.
- nsomaru 7y ago
  Used this before, overpriced and slow