6 ms·

I don't think the rich really get anything out of it, but in the Nordic countries, fines increase in proportion to your wealth. I remember reading about a Nokia

by 100k 16y ago

I don't think the rich really get anything out of it, but in the Nordic countries, fines increase in proportion to your wealth. I remember reading about a Nokia exec getting pulled over for speeding. His ticket was like $75,000! http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1670583 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1670583 I've often thought some fees should be adjusted for wealth. For example, a quarter a day isn't really enough to get me to take my library books back on time. Maybe for me it should be $2 a day.

wigginus 16y ago
I think many European countries adjust the fines to ones wealth: For example Switzerland: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10960230 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10960230
- jimmyjim 16y ago
  And I want to point out that it makes very much sense to have fines adjusted to one's wealth. When speeding, you're endangering people's lives. There has to be some measure that will make you think twice about speeding the next time around -- if you know that the ticket fine will be a paltry amount to you (relative to your total wealth), that is no deterrent.
  - dustinupdyke 16y ago
    I get what you are saying here, but I think the questions generated by this statement are numerous: "When speeding, you're endangering people's lives." Does this mean 56 mph is, and 55 is not dangerous somehow? By what science is this the case? What about weather conditions? The condition of your car? The type of your car? Your skill and ability to drive? Also, the randomness with which this law is enforced is troublesome as well. But perhaps if speeding tickets were $1000 dollars and up, we'd all think about it a bit more...
    - jarek 16y ago
      If you get a ticket for exceeding the speed limit by 1 mph, there are larger issues at hand than how much this ticket will cost you. Yes, speed limits are to an extent arbitrary, but practical alternative is a total judgment call. Do you always know the entirety of the condition of your car, and if not, should you be limited to 30 mph? Should drivers' licenses include a quantifiable evaluation of your skill and ability to drive and be tied into different speed limits, and how will that be tested? How will police officers know who is exceeding their license's conditions and therefore who to pull over?
      - ramanujan 16y ago
        > practical alternative is a total judgment call Right. So is the Autobahn actually all that accident prone? 55 was initially marketed as something that saved gas. After that was debunked, it was changed to "55 saves lives".
        zbanks 16y ago
        It's also been shown that you can maximize the throughput of a highway if the speed limit is 45mph. Too high, and you need to increase the space between cars. Although 55mph != 45mph, it's pretty close. It also doesn't serve the individual, but if can't get the cars through fast enough, the traffic will build up eventually.
        daniel-cussen 16y ago
        You could change the speed limit dynamically to always maximize throughput.
        vl 16y ago
        Major Seattle highways have variable speed limits now, same constant traffic jams as before.
        jarek 16y ago
  - pmiller2 16y ago
    Fines aren't the deterrent. The deterrent is that points on your license lead to higher insurance rates and eventual loss of driving privileges.
    - jws 16y ago
      Except with wealth you can pay a local lawyer to plead it to a non-moving violation, a ludicrously inflated "court cost", and a "donation" to the local law enforcement retirement fund. (Kirksville Missouri, I'm looking at you.) The wealthy can opt for a "pay X now" instead of "Y over time where Y>X" option. Wealth buys you a discount.
      - cookiecaper 16y ago
        And all of that is likely to cost much more than just paying the fine and moving on. It sounds like the rich guy got taken to task for his attempts to weasel out of it in the case you're referring to. He eventually got what he wanted, I guess, which is no points, but it sounds like it cost a lot of money (unless his donation to the pension fund and his lawyer's hourly rate was $25).
        jws 16y ago
        The points would have cost much more in future insurance policy premiums. The total cost of the fix is about $250 and you get to keep your "safe driver" rate or whatever the insurance company does for point-free/accident-free drivers.
        Unseelie 16y ago
        I find it interesting that the points have only been talked about in terms of the money they can cost you as a direct affect....The fact that they can make you lose your right to drive a car, and the myriad costs that carries, has been completely ignored.
  - vlisivka 16y ago
    Increase every next fine by two. Drop older fines after year. If we will start from 1, then nobody will be able to get more than 32 fines per year, even Bill Gates. ;-)
dagw 16y ago
In Sweden many fines are defined in "dagsböter" or literally "day fines" as opposed to an actual amount. Basically one "dagsböter" is equivalent to one days wages. So the judge decides that you should pay 60 days wages, without actually have to take any stance to how much you actually pay.
- klbarry 16y ago
  So Eric Schmidt would pay some pennies? (Since he is paid $1 a year :) )
  - jarek 16y ago
    One might assume that the system has a way of establishing the true magnitude of an individual's compensation.
    - jpwagner 16y ago
      fat chance...maybe the above joke is silly, but no one has "a way of establishing the true magnitude of an individual's compensation."
      - jarek 16y ago
        What are some legal ways for an individual to be compensated that wouldn't appear in the tax documentation of either the individual or the company in question? "Legal" is used here to mean "would stand up in a court of law in the relevant jurisdiction."
        jpwagner 16y ago
        The fact is that if Eric Schmidt were fined 100% of his "net worth" he would be among the rich again within a year or two. Suppose a professional gambler made exactly the same amount as Eric Schmidt per year. This "system" would fine them equally. But the gambler relies on his bankroll as his asset, whereas Schmidt relies on his reputation and personal network. How can you make this fair?
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
jasonervin 16y ago
Proportions are right on. Simple and probably easy get passed by the public... errr well maybe. Very good point.

by 100k 16y ago

wigginus 16y ago

I think many European countries adjust the fines to ones wealth: For example Switzerland: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10960230 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10960230

jimmyjim 16y ago
And I want to point out that it makes very much sense to have fines adjusted to one's wealth. When speeding, you're endangering people's lives. There has to be some measure that will make you think twice about speeding the next time around -- if you know that the ticket fine will be a paltry amount to you (relative to your total wealth), that is no deterrent.
- dustinupdyke 16y ago
  I get what you are saying here, but I think the questions generated by this statement are numerous: "When speeding, you're endangering people's lives." Does this mean 56 mph is, and 55 is not dangerous somehow? By what science is this the case? What about weather conditions? The condition of your car? The type of your car? Your skill and ability to drive? Also, the randomness with which this law is enforced is troublesome as well. But perhaps if speeding tickets were $1000 dollars and up, we'd all think about it a bit more...
  - jarek 16y ago
    If you get a ticket for exceeding the speed limit by 1 mph, there are larger issues at hand than how much this ticket will cost you. Yes, speed limits are to an extent arbitrary, but practical alternative is a total judgment call. Do you always know the entirety of the condition of your car, and if not, should you be limited to 30 mph? Should drivers' licenses include a quantifiable evaluation of your skill and ability to drive and be tied into different speed limits, and how will that be tested? How will police officers know who is exceeding their license's conditions and therefore who to pull over?
    - ramanujan 16y ago
      > practical alternative is a total judgment call Right. So is the Autobahn actually all that accident prone? 55 was initially marketed as something that saved gas. After that was debunked, it was changed to "55 saves lives".
      - zbanks 16y ago
        It's also been shown that you can maximize the throughput of a highway if the speed limit is 45mph. Too high, and you need to increase the space between cars. Although 55mph != 45mph, it's pretty close. It also doesn't serve the individual, but if can't get the cars through fast enough, the traffic will build up eventually.
        daniel-cussen 16y ago
        You could change the speed limit dynamically to always maximize throughput.
        vl 16y ago
        Major Seattle highways have variable speed limits now, same constant traffic jams as before.
      - jarek 16y ago
- pmiller2 16y ago
  Fines aren't the deterrent. The deterrent is that points on your license lead to higher insurance rates and eventual loss of driving privileges.
  - jws 16y ago
    Except with wealth you can pay a local lawyer to plead it to a non-moving violation, a ludicrously inflated "court cost", and a "donation" to the local law enforcement retirement fund. (Kirksville Missouri, I'm looking at you.) The wealthy can opt for a "pay X now" instead of "Y over time where Y>X" option. Wealth buys you a discount.
    - cookiecaper 16y ago
      And all of that is likely to cost much more than just paying the fine and moving on. It sounds like the rich guy got taken to task for his attempts to weasel out of it in the case you're referring to. He eventually got what he wanted, I guess, which is no points, but it sounds like it cost a lot of money (unless his donation to the pension fund and his lawyer's hourly rate was $25).
      - jws 16y ago
        The points would have cost much more in future insurance policy premiums. The total cost of the fix is about $250 and you get to keep your "safe driver" rate or whatever the insurance company does for point-free/accident-free drivers.
        Unseelie 16y ago
        I find it interesting that the points have only been talked about in terms of the money they can cost you as a direct affect....The fact that they can make you lose your right to drive a car, and the myriad costs that carries, has been completely ignored.
- vlisivka 16y ago
  Increase every next fine by two. Drop older fines after year. If we will start from 1, then nobody will be able to get more than 32 fines per year, even Bill Gates. ;-)

dagw 16y ago

In Sweden many fines are defined in "dagsböter" or literally "day fines" as opposed to an actual amount. Basically one "dagsböter" is equivalent to one days wages. So the judge decides that you should pay 60 days wages, without actually have to take any stance to how much you actually pay.

klbarry 16y ago
So Eric Schmidt would pay some pennies? (Since he is paid $1 a year :) )
- jarek 16y ago
  One might assume that the system has a way of establishing the true magnitude of an individual's compensation.
  - jpwagner 16y ago
    fat chance...maybe the above joke is silly, but no one has "a way of establishing the true magnitude of an individual's compensation."
    - jarek 16y ago
      What are some legal ways for an individual to be compensated that wouldn't appear in the tax documentation of either the individual or the company in question? "Legal" is used here to mean "would stand up in a court of law in the relevant jurisdiction."
      - jpwagner 16y ago
        The fact is that if Eric Schmidt were fined 100% of his "net worth" he would be among the rich again within a year or two. Suppose a professional gambler made exactly the same amount as Eric Schmidt per year. This "system" would fine them equally. But the gambler relies on his bankroll as his asset, whereas Schmidt relies on his reputation and personal network. How can you make this fair?

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

jasonervin 16y ago

Proportions are right on. Simple and probably easy get passed by the public... errr well maybe. Very good point.