5 ms·

> She also sometimes see colors in her dreams that are outside of a pallet humans see in real life, but after she wakes up she can't describe them. It's not one

by hx2a 7y ago

> She also sometimes see colors in her dreams that are outside of a pallet humans see in real life, but after she wakes up she can't describe them. It's not one color or one hue, there are several colors that she can only experience in her dreams. Sounds like she is describing imaginary or impossible colors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_color https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_color

guenthert 7y ago
That whole article is flawed in defining 'color' as 'color perception of average human'. I don't think one gets anywhere unless one strictly separates the physical properties (of a light source) from the perception (of a (human or otherwise) sensor).
- codebolt 7y ago
  The term quale/qualia is useful in this discussion. It seems his wife is experiencing color-qualia in her dream that doesn't correspond to any qualia that is produced in response to light hitting her eyes, whatever the wavelength. To me it only highlights our gaping lack of scientific understanding as to what qualia is and how it is produced.
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  Definitions vary, but the first for "color" is "A property depending on the relations of light to the eye". http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=*&Query=color http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=*&Query=col... Freedict gives: That aspect of things that is caused by differing qualities of the light reflected or emitted by them, definable in terms of the observer or of the light https://www.thefreedictionary.com/color https://www.thefreedictionary.com/color That is, colour is a perception, dependent on the observer. Agreed-on colours being those on which typical observers share common experience, is correct. Wavelengths, pigmentation, and diffraction effects (which give rise to colour in observers) are phenomena. The terms quale and qualia suggested by @codebolt are indeed quite useful. (Language itself is shared agreement among symbolic references, given context.)
- carapace 7y ago
  Color is subjective. The physical properties contribute, of course, but color happens in the brain. Image search "color illusion": https://duckduckgo.com/?q=optical+color+illusion&t=ffab&atb=v60-1&iax=images&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=optical+color+illusion&t=ffab&atb=... Or see (literally) "Benham's top" where a black-and-white pattern on a spinning disk induces the perception of color. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benham%27s_top https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benham%27s_top I see slightly different colors out of each eye, with no way of knowing which eye is correct. Neither eye is correct: color is subjective. "Who is the master who makes the grass green?" It's a deep question.
  - mirimir 7y ago
    I'm somewhat red/green colorblind. With psychedelics, I saw colors that I'd never seen in reality. But that's just color illusion on steroids. What interesting, though, is that I saw patterns in objects that normally seemed ~uniform in color. So maybe "software tweaks" can mitigate hardware limitations.
    - HankB99 7y ago
      Somewhat? I wonder how you would measure that. Many long years ago a co-worker was explaining a control panel to me. It had red and green LED indicators. He had them backward as he pointed them out. I asked him if he was color-blind. His reply was "Yes, a little bit." It seems to me that when everything looks the same from birth on (excepting perhaps focus. ;) ) then it is difficult to compare what one sees with what others see. I also wonder if some colored LEDs tend to be "worst case" as they may be monochromatic and if the eye is not sensitive to that particular wavelength, it will not be visible as color. Actually... I also wonder about how a wide gamut of colors can be represented by relative intensity of three primary colors: red, green and blue. I would expect the emitters in, for example, an LCD screen to emit light at specific frequencies. How can any combination of three frequencies represent what must be a broad rage of frequencies that form any given color in the world around us.
      - mirimir 7y ago

by hx2a 7y ago

guenthert 7y ago

That whole article is flawed in defining 'color' as 'color perception of average human'. I don't think one gets anywhere unless one strictly separates the physical properties (of a light source) from the perception (of a (human or otherwise) sensor).

codebolt 7y ago
The term quale/qualia is useful in this discussion. It seems his wife is experiencing color-qualia in her dream that doesn't correspond to any qualia that is produced in response to light hitting her eyes, whatever the wavelength. To me it only highlights our gaping lack of scientific understanding as to what qualia is and how it is produced.
dredmorbius 7y ago
Definitions vary, but the first for "color" is "A property depending on the relations of light to the eye". http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=*&Query=color http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=*&Query=col... Freedict gives: That aspect of things that is caused by differing qualities of the light reflected or emitted by them, definable in terms of the observer or of the light https://www.thefreedictionary.com/color https://www.thefreedictionary.com/color That is, colour is a perception, dependent on the observer. Agreed-on colours being those on which typical observers share common experience, is correct. Wavelengths, pigmentation, and diffraction effects (which give rise to colour in observers) are phenomena. The terms quale and qualia suggested by @codebolt are indeed quite useful. (Language itself is shared agreement among symbolic references, given context.)
carapace 7y ago
Color is subjective. The physical properties contribute, of course, but color happens in the brain. Image search "color illusion": https://duckduckgo.com/?q=optical+color+illusion&t=ffab&atb=v60-1&iax=images&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=optical+color+illusion&t=ffab&atb=... Or see (literally) "Benham's top" where a black-and-white pattern on a spinning disk induces the perception of color. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benham%27s_top https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benham%27s_top I see slightly different colors out of each eye, with no way of knowing which eye is correct. Neither eye is correct: color is subjective. "Who is the master who makes the grass green?" It's a deep question.
- mirimir 7y ago
  I'm somewhat red/green colorblind. With psychedelics, I saw colors that I'd never seen in reality. But that's just color illusion on steroids. What interesting, though, is that I saw patterns in objects that normally seemed ~uniform in color. So maybe "software tweaks" can mitigate hardware limitations.
  - HankB99 7y ago
    Somewhat? I wonder how you would measure that. Many long years ago a co-worker was explaining a control panel to me. It had red and green LED indicators. He had them backward as he pointed them out. I asked him if he was color-blind. His reply was "Yes, a little bit." It seems to me that when everything looks the same from birth on (excepting perhaps focus. ;) ) then it is difficult to compare what one sees with what others see. I also wonder if some colored LEDs tend to be "worst case" as they may be monochromatic and if the eye is not sensitive to that particular wavelength, it will not be visible as color. Actually... I also wonder about how a wide gamut of colors can be represented by relative intensity of three primary colors: red, green and blue. I would expect the emitters in, for example, an LCD screen to emit light at specific frequencies. How can any combination of three frequencies represent what must be a broad rage of frequencies that form any given color in the world around us.
    - mirimir 7y ago