5 ms·

Maybe if this group grows over time we can finally move past the 24-bit color space that the mainstream has been stuck with for decades. I'm not a tetrachromat

by bhauer 7y ago

Maybe if this group grows over time we can finally move past the 24-bit color space that the mainstream has been stuck with for decades. I'm not a tetrachromat nor a woman, but I do routinely find myself bothered by the banding of gradients in the 24-bit color space. I went as far as asking Mozilla to consider adding a dithering algorithm to their gradients [1]. [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=627771 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=627771 (note the linked example is from 9 years ago and the -moz-linear-gradient CSS attributes no longer work.)

BurningFrog 7y ago
I think that is entirely separate. The 24 bits are 3x8. To accommodate tetrachromats, you'd go to 4x8, not 3x10.
- gsich 7y ago
  Close enough.
- crazygringo 7y ago
  This. Banding and tetrachromacy have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Something between 30- and 48-bit color will fix banding beyond anyone's perception. The idea of accomodating tetrachromats is certainly quite interesting, but it doesn't appear they all have a fourth rod that responds to the same frequency distribution, so 4x8 would only work for individual people, not tetrachromats at large? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_depth#Deep_color_(30/36/48-bit) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_depth#Deep_color_(30/36/...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- pedrocr 7y ago
  I don't think there's any need to go to four primaries. If you keep just RGB but have more bits per channel you can widen the color space without getting banding while also representing many more colors. You just move the RGB primaries out to cover more space. Doing 3x32bit float is common to get you all the color resolution you'll ever need for calculations in image pipelines.
  - pygy_ 7y ago
    We could even go up to 2x64bit floats for even more definition... Wait, that didn't make sense to you as a trichromat? Neither does your suggestion to a tetrachromat. For them color is a four dimensional space (tetrachromat literally means "four-colorist"). The RGB cube becomes a RXGB hypercube. You can't emulate X with RGB like you can't emulate green with red and blue.
    - pedrocr 7y ago
      That will heavily depend on if the extra primary actually allows you to sample something significantly different from the other three or just gives you more color differentiation. My understanding was that human tetrachromats had their extra primary close to one of the "standard" ones and that gave them more color differentiation but not exactly extra colors.
      - masklinn 7y ago
        It gives them more color differentiation in the same way your trichromacy gives you more color differentiation than a deuteranope.
proverbialbunny 7y ago
At least 10bit h264 and h265 has caught on. As someone who watches a lot of cartoons, I'm grateful. I'm also grateful for how smooth TV has gotten in the HD era. I was using a neural net to restore standard def TV and make it look like proper HD fooling people around me, but the frame rate difference due to deinterlacing is a giveaway.
- pedrocr 7y ago
  Why does the frame rate differ after deinterlacing? Isn't interlaced TV 50 or 60 half frames per second?
  - samplatt 7y ago
    At a guess, high-latency phosphor changes on old CRT TV's made the video look smoother, even if it was blurrier.
  - LocalH 7y ago
    Probably bad deinterlacing somewhere along the way. For too long, half-rate deinterlacing (60i > 30p) has been common. That's starting to change with 60p support on major distribution platforms, but in the piracy scene half-rate deinterlacing is still common for many types of content.
  - proverbialbunny 7y ago
    It's a complex subject. Most NTSC interlacing is what you call 3:2 interlacing. When deinterlacing this kind of interlaced content, the best method is a 3:2 pulldown which converts the frames back to the original frames, or almost all of them, that is. There is a few frames lost in this process. Eg, 30fps interlaced then deinterlaced turns into 29.97 fps. 24 fps turns into 23.976 fps. This introduces a sort of stutter that true progressive content does not have. Also, in the 90s most anime, for example, was 24 fps, where modern day anime is 30fps or higher. This difference is noticeable as well.
    - pedrocr 7y ago

by bhauer 7y ago

BurningFrog 7y ago

I think that is entirely separate. The 24 bits are 3x8. To accommodate tetrachromats, you'd go to 4x8, not 3x10.

gsich 7y ago
Close enough.
crazygringo 7y ago
This. Banding and tetrachromacy have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Something between 30- and 48-bit color will fix banding beyond anyone's perception. The idea of accomodating tetrachromats is certainly quite interesting, but it doesn't appear they all have a fourth rod that responds to the same frequency distribution, so 4x8 would only work for individual people, not tetrachromats at large? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_depth#Deep_color_(30/36/48-bit) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_depth#Deep_color_(30/36/...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
pedrocr 7y ago
I don't think there's any need to go to four primaries. If you keep just RGB but have more bits per channel you can widen the color space without getting banding while also representing many more colors. You just move the RGB primaries out to cover more space. Doing 3x32bit float is common to get you all the color resolution you'll ever need for calculations in image pipelines.
- pygy_ 7y ago
  We could even go up to 2x64bit floats for even more definition... Wait, that didn't make sense to you as a trichromat? Neither does your suggestion to a tetrachromat. For them color is a four dimensional space (tetrachromat literally means "four-colorist"). The RGB cube becomes a RXGB hypercube. You can't emulate X with RGB like you can't emulate green with red and blue.
  - pedrocr 7y ago
    That will heavily depend on if the extra primary actually allows you to sample something significantly different from the other three or just gives you more color differentiation. My understanding was that human tetrachromats had their extra primary close to one of the "standard" ones and that gave them more color differentiation but not exactly extra colors.
    - masklinn 7y ago
      It gives them more color differentiation in the same way your trichromacy gives you more color differentiation than a deuteranope.

proverbialbunny 7y ago

At least 10bit h264 and h265 has caught on. As someone who watches a lot of cartoons, I'm grateful. I'm also grateful for how smooth TV has gotten in the HD era. I was using a neural net to restore standard def TV and make it look like proper HD fooling people around me, but the frame rate difference due to deinterlacing is a giveaway.

pedrocr 7y ago
Why does the frame rate differ after deinterlacing? Isn't interlaced TV 50 or 60 half frames per second?
- samplatt 7y ago
  At a guess, high-latency phosphor changes on old CRT TV's made the video look smoother, even if it was blurrier.
- LocalH 7y ago
  Probably bad deinterlacing somewhere along the way. For too long, half-rate deinterlacing (60i > 30p) has been common. That's starting to change with 60p support on major distribution platforms, but in the piracy scene half-rate deinterlacing is still common for many types of content.
- proverbialbunny 7y ago
  It's a complex subject. Most NTSC interlacing is what you call 3:2 interlacing. When deinterlacing this kind of interlaced content, the best method is a 3:2 pulldown which converts the frames back to the original frames, or almost all of them, that is. There is a few frames lost in this process. Eg, 30fps interlaced then deinterlaced turns into 29.97 fps. 24 fps turns into 23.976 fps. This introduces a sort of stutter that true progressive content does not have. Also, in the 90s most anime, for example, was 24 fps, where modern day anime is 30fps or higher. This difference is noticeable as well.
  - pedrocr 7y ago