7 ms·

Highs and lows of Lowell Cafe, America’s first cannabis cafe

70 points by Thevet 7y ago

dillonmckay 7y ago
Any better URLs for this story?
- tyingq 7y ago
  Different article, same topic, from the NYT: https://outline.com/WngSrf https://outline.com/WngSrf Or try the SCMP's "print" link. It has less heavy javascript, no scroll jacking, and no "read the whole article" nonsense: https://www.scmp.com/print/lifestyle/food-drink/article/3037576/highs-and-lows-lowell-cafe-americas-first-cannabis-cafe-where https://www.scmp.com/print/lifestyle/food-drink/article/3037... (I'd argue for changing the linked story to this)
say_it_as_it_is 7y ago
The author of this article describes a room full of introspective patrons staring off into their own worlds. One reason for this is that the pot is just too damn strong for anyone other than habitual consumers. Instead, cafes need to offer 2:1 (cbd:thc) strains with no more than 5% thc for casual consumers. Also, certain types of strains are more introspective than others. They're consuming sativa strains known for psychedelic properties. Further, patrons have chosen a social setting to experience cannabis culture together and yet aren't engaged to share the experience. Live, engaging entertainment could be a huge win. Staff who float around the room engaging those who have drifted, as a shaman or therapist in a clinical setting does, may also help.
- grenoire 7y ago
  Americans in general seem to be quite engaged in these very high THC strains that give you the zoned out kind of high, as opposed to the more sociable (as you described) low THC and high CBD strains. For a coffeeshop setting, I would have liked it very much if our Dutch coffeeshops had a sense of community, as opposed to being drop-offs for tourists looking to get a quick high in the city.
  - malvosenior 7y ago
    I wonder how much of this has to do with US infrastructure and lifestyle in general. In the majority of the US (and definitely California) you have to drive long distances to do pretty much anything. While it's not as bad as drinking I don't think it's safe or recommended to drive while high. People in the US also generally have large screen TVs, lots of channels on cable satellite, large living rooms., large refrigerators.. all of which are fairly conducive to using high powered weed and zoning out on your couch.
    - dwoozle 7y ago
      I think it’s more that Americans culturally tend to the “extreme sports” mentality in many aspects of their lives. Biggest baddest loudest most intense most successful mosh committed hardest working are all excessively venerated here.
      - malvosenior 7y ago
        That's not particularly reflected in other forms of intoxication though. A ton of people in the US drink super light beer for instance (vs hard alcohol). They also tend to avoid espresso shots in favor of shake-like products. I'm not saying you're incorrect but other consumption habits don't always lean toward the most extreme option.
        catalogia 7y ago
        > they also tend to avoid espresso shots in favor of shake-like products. Maybe they're just competing to see who can have the biggest, sweetest, most extravagant beverage, rather than who can make it the most concentrated. If the name of your coffee beverage takes five minutes to pronounce, you're the coolest cat in town.
        asdff 7y ago
        I mean there are still plenty of alcoholics and people with beer bellies. Light beer is more conducive to American activities, maybe. If you are sitting out in the hot sun, are you going to start ripping shots or drinking red wine, or a cold beer? A cup of drip coffee is typically stronger than espresso as well.
- mayniac 7y ago
  Agree completely. I used to frequent cannabis cafés in London (yes, they exist). Most were run by North African gangs who sold Moroccan hash. THC percentage isn't a thing in the black market, but it was easy enough to smoke throughout the night and still be functional. My experience with those cafés is nothing like the one in this article: it was actually enjoyable. Most people who drink socially don't drink everclear. They drink beer, wine, or spirits with mixers. Cannabis seems to be the reverse of that nowadays.
  - say_it_as_it_is 7y ago
    I like the everclear analogy! We're experiencing a product made by the underground cannabis community for that community -- habitual consumers. The tolerance level of a habitual consumer is really high. So, for decades, breeders chose to continue growing the strongest strain, every time, for years and years. Then, when commercial players entered the market, they took those high-thc strains and put them through even greater quality controls, making strains even more potent. This is changing, but not too quickly as the business-minded people running cannabis companies are still trying to validate their first business model and aren't adapting to demand as quickly as tech entrepreneurs do. Successful 2:1 product lines will attract business and then companies will respond. More craft beer and wine, less everclear. Better experiences in cafes.
  - papreclip 7y ago
    The difference is you are diluting your narcotic with water in the case of alcohol, and with burnt plant material in the case of THC. I, a non-smoker, went to a hookah bar once and already felt disgusted by the mouth-throat-lung experience halfway through the night. I would consider trying a cannabis cafe for the experience of getting high in that setting, but have no interest in smoking for hours. I'd much rather take one hit, see how I feel and take 0.5-2 more based on that
- PopeDotNinja 7y ago
  How does the cafe staff avoid getting high as heck? Or is getting high from second hand marihuana smoke not a thing?
  - koolba 7y ago
    I’d imagine a proper ventilation system, similar to a cigar lounge, should be fine.
  - kingbirdy 7y ago
    Even outside a weed cafe, food service workers are more likely to be high than not. Original source: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/figure/10.1080/09540261.2018.1465397?scroll=top&needAccess=true https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/figure/10.1080/09540261.2018... Blog w/o paywall: https://www.marijuanamoment.net/workers-in-these-industries-are-most-likely-to-consume-marijuana/ https://www.marijuanamoment.net/workers-in-these-industries-...
    - lostgame 7y ago
      This is truth if I’ve ever seen it. Chefs and line cooks whoa boy that whole industry in the back of the restaurant runs off drugs.
  - pretendscholar 7y ago
    Tolerance builds up rapidly. If you smoke or otherwise ingest every day it stops affecting you as much.
- DonHopkins 7y ago
  My friend from New York was unpacking a bunch of old boxes in his house in California about a decade after he moved, and he unexpectedly pulled out this sandwich baggie full of weed, with a post-it note stuck on to the outside. The post-it note read in scrawled handwriting: "TOO STRONG. SAVE FOR LATER." We both looked at each other and exclaimed "It's later!"
- geebee 7y ago
  I agree, it doesn’t sound like much fun. What you’ve described sounds like a much better “cafe” experience.
  - asdff 7y ago
    Which is what this is.
- dominotw 7y ago
  > Also, certain types of strains are more introspective than others. Hasn't this largely proven to be untrue though ?
  - AlecSchueler 7y ago
    What makes you say that? Would be curious to read any study about that if you can remember where you heard that.
    - dominotw 7y ago
      Ok i will try to seach for it once i get to my home laptop. I thought it was more of a marketing thing than any something backed up scientifically. Is is scientifically studied?
  - say_it_as_it_is 7y ago
    You're referring to the blurred classification of indica and sativa. Breeders crossed these strains so often that there is less of a distinction. However, there remain pure sativa and pure indica strains that haven't crossed. Now, industry is using a spectrum to describe where in the sativa-indica spectrum the product experience usually lies. Sativa-leaning product are more psychedelic and introspective.
- asdff 7y ago
  I mean, it's not going to look like a rowdy bar. People are getting stoned. Generally when you start smoking too much, you space out and slow down, and sober up a bit. You get people drinking too much at bars too, doesn't mean you should start cutting your whisky though.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
human 7y ago
I hate when people refer to the United States as “America”. Very misleading.
WilliamEdward 7y ago
first? hardly
trenning 7y ago
I've been talking about this concept with my girlfriend a lot lately. Why aren't there any dispensaries in WA where you can buy a preroll and just sit and chill at the store like a coffee shop? It must be regulations preventing it I assume? I thought it was illegal to smoke inside a business in pretty much every state now. I was thinking some kind of covered patio with those outdoor heaters for winter would be a way around it but now I'm more curious about how they're able to sell food and allow people to smoke inside. At any rate I hope this becomes more popular just at price ranges that aren't so hipster LA
- somehnguy 7y ago
  I'm not sure on the details but just throwing out what I've seen in NY. Smoke shops around here seem to allow smoking indoors, I assume there are special provisions for that type of business. There is also a bar around here that has a separate smoking room. They have a large air filtration system hanging from the ceiling in there, not sure if thats why they can get away with it. There is even a little door in the wall where they can serve drinks to you while you're in there.
  - GhettoMaestro 7y ago
    I believe a separate room (sealed with automatic closing door) and an air extractor/scrubber is required for indoors usage. Where I live, you can offer a smoking section outdoors, but honestly, the air extractors are pretty cheap and help avoid adjacent non-smoking patrons from being bothered. They should be used both indoors and outdoors in my view.
- Qworg 7y ago
  Almost certainly regulations. There's a cafe/dispensary combination in Redmond, but all of the various parts are separated.
- wbronitsky 7y ago
  This is an easily searchable answer: https://www.tripsavvy.com/washington-marijuana-smoking-regulations-4134899 https://www.tripsavvy.com/washington-marijuana-smoking-regul... https://www.thestranger.com/green-guide-spring-2018/2018/04/11/26020678/california-and-colorado-are-getting-weed-cafes-why-cant-washington https://www.thestranger.com/green-guide-spring-2018/2018/04/... https://lcb.wa.gov/mj-education/know-the-law https://lcb.wa.gov/mj-education/know-the-law it might or might not be a good idea to do some research before asking others to do research for you
appleflaxen 7y ago
The author states that the food isn't very good, and reaches the conclusion that: > the experience just didn’t feel that special. interesting review; I'm glad he went and shared the experience.
dadarepublic 7y ago
Choice quote for the article: >Mostly, what Lowell Cafe taught me is that I am getting old. I can’t tell you how long we stayed at the cafe, though I doubt we came near to reaching our allotted 90 minutes. A guy that used to smoke copious amounts of weed before he was 21, once again dives into the culture, with an inept guide, and quickly succumbs to the potency of modern strains. It would be nice to have a counter-take from his friend who was supposed to be his guide (and did a terrible job from what I could see). And I totally agree with the commenter who said the cafe should offer strains of lesser potency - and also have a staff knowledgable enough to guide people towards strains suited to their background and needs/wants. It does sound like the cafe has work to do in this regard and I would say this aspect would be a good take-away review, but instead the author just focused on his own negative reaction to super-strong weed his friend suggested. Bummer.
- proc0 7y ago
  Your ability to handle weed has nothing to do with age, not to mention smoking before 21 is probably very bad in the long run. Your body gets used to copious amounts of THC if you just keep smoking every day for some time, probably 6 months to a year. Everyone can do it, imho, but nobody even considers it because of the social taboo. Everyone is ok with drinking caffeine till the point you get headaches if you stop, but smoking a joint a day is still seen under negative light.
  - dadarepublic 7y ago
    I agree and it was what I was trying to point out. I wasn't focused on the age of the smoker at all but the length of time it had been for him as a 'regular' smoker. He obviously needed more curation and guidance. I was probably a bit too snarky in my comment which made it come off as being focused on his age - hope this helps clear the air on that point.
    - proc0 7y ago
      I see, I may have misread it np. Yeah dosage is always the key.
lostgame 7y ago
Toronto has had phenomenal weed cafes in the city for at least a decade - well before legalization. Heck, there’s one (Vapour Central) that’s smack dab in the middle of Yonge and Bloor - about as central as they could get. These are BOYC - bring your own cannabis - places - they provide bongs for rent and vaporizers like the Volcano, as well as live music and comedy. I recall performing there several times. The smoking laws in Ontario are strict. I don’t know if we will see the likes of these outside of the grey market here in Toronto - but the grey market ones are great for what they are. Again - nothing special, especially now that it’s legal. It’s a bar but with weed. I mean; what are you really expecting? But if you enjoy it, they’re good, and are definitely a cool cultural experience.
- ksaj 7y ago
  Stand up comedy in front of a bunch of stoned Terrawna folk would be so good for the improv ego. Laughs all around. Never a bad joke. Don't forget how long Hot Box has been around in Kensington Market. I don't know when they opened shop, but it was definitely before legalization was on the visible horizon.

70 points by Thevet 7y ago

dillonmckay 7y ago

Any better URLs for this story?

tyingq 7y ago
Different article, same topic, from the NYT: https://outline.com/WngSrf https://outline.com/WngSrf Or try the SCMP's "print" link. It has less heavy javascript, no scroll jacking, and no "read the whole article" nonsense: https://www.scmp.com/print/lifestyle/food-drink/article/3037576/highs-and-lows-lowell-cafe-americas-first-cannabis-cafe-where https://www.scmp.com/print/lifestyle/food-drink/article/3037... (I'd argue for changing the linked story to this)

say_it_as_it_is 7y ago

The author of this article describes a room full of introspective patrons staring off into their own worlds. One reason for this is that the pot is just too damn strong for anyone other than habitual consumers. Instead, cafes need to offer 2:1 (cbd:thc) strains with no more than 5% thc for casual consumers. Also, certain types of strains are more introspective than others. They're consuming sativa strains known for psychedelic properties. Further, patrons have chosen a social setting to experience cannabis culture together and yet aren't engaged to share the experience. Live, engaging entertainment could be a huge win. Staff who float around the room engaging those who have drifted, as a shaman or therapist in a clinical setting does, may also help.

grenoire 7y ago
Americans in general seem to be quite engaged in these very high THC strains that give you the zoned out kind of high, as opposed to the more sociable (as you described) low THC and high CBD strains. For a coffeeshop setting, I would have liked it very much if our Dutch coffeeshops had a sense of community, as opposed to being drop-offs for tourists looking to get a quick high in the city.
- malvosenior 7y ago
  I wonder how much of this has to do with US infrastructure and lifestyle in general. In the majority of the US (and definitely California) you have to drive long distances to do pretty much anything. While it's not as bad as drinking I don't think it's safe or recommended to drive while high. People in the US also generally have large screen TVs, lots of channels on cable satellite, large living rooms., large refrigerators.. all of which are fairly conducive to using high powered weed and zoning out on your couch.
  - dwoozle 7y ago
    I think it’s more that Americans culturally tend to the “extreme sports” mentality in many aspects of their lives. Biggest baddest loudest most intense most successful mosh committed hardest working are all excessively venerated here.
    - malvosenior 7y ago
      That's not particularly reflected in other forms of intoxication though. A ton of people in the US drink super light beer for instance (vs hard alcohol). They also tend to avoid espresso shots in favor of shake-like products. I'm not saying you're incorrect but other consumption habits don't always lean toward the most extreme option.
      - catalogia 7y ago
        > they also tend to avoid espresso shots in favor of shake-like products. Maybe they're just competing to see who can have the biggest, sweetest, most extravagant beverage, rather than who can make it the most concentrated. If the name of your coffee beverage takes five minutes to pronounce, you're the coolest cat in town.
      - asdff 7y ago
        I mean there are still plenty of alcoholics and people with beer bellies. Light beer is more conducive to American activities, maybe. If you are sitting out in the hot sun, are you going to start ripping shots or drinking red wine, or a cold beer? A cup of drip coffee is typically stronger than espresso as well.
mayniac 7y ago
Agree completely. I used to frequent cannabis cafés in London (yes, they exist). Most were run by North African gangs who sold Moroccan hash. THC percentage isn't a thing in the black market, but it was easy enough to smoke throughout the night and still be functional. My experience with those cafés is nothing like the one in this article: it was actually enjoyable. Most people who drink socially don't drink everclear. They drink beer, wine, or spirits with mixers. Cannabis seems to be the reverse of that nowadays.
- say_it_as_it_is 7y ago
  I like the everclear analogy! We're experiencing a product made by the underground cannabis community for that community -- habitual consumers. The tolerance level of a habitual consumer is really high. So, for decades, breeders chose to continue growing the strongest strain, every time, for years and years. Then, when commercial players entered the market, they took those high-thc strains and put them through even greater quality controls, making strains even more potent. This is changing, but not too quickly as the business-minded people running cannabis companies are still trying to validate their first business model and aren't adapting to demand as quickly as tech entrepreneurs do. Successful 2:1 product lines will attract business and then companies will respond. More craft beer and wine, less everclear. Better experiences in cafes.
- papreclip 7y ago
  The difference is you are diluting your narcotic with water in the case of alcohol, and with burnt plant material in the case of THC. I, a non-smoker, went to a hookah bar once and already felt disgusted by the mouth-throat-lung experience halfway through the night. I would consider trying a cannabis cafe for the experience of getting high in that setting, but have no interest in smoking for hours. I'd much rather take one hit, see how I feel and take 0.5-2 more based on that
PopeDotNinja 7y ago
How does the cafe staff avoid getting high as heck? Or is getting high from second hand marihuana smoke not a thing?
- koolba 7y ago
  I’d imagine a proper ventilation system, similar to a cigar lounge, should be fine.
- kingbirdy 7y ago
  Even outside a weed cafe, food service workers are more likely to be high than not. Original source: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/figure/10.1080/09540261.2018.1465397?scroll=top&needAccess=true https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/figure/10.1080/09540261.2018... Blog w/o paywall: https://www.marijuanamoment.net/workers-in-these-industries-are-most-likely-to-consume-marijuana/ https://www.marijuanamoment.net/workers-in-these-industries-...
  - lostgame 7y ago
    This is truth if I’ve ever seen it. Chefs and line cooks whoa boy that whole industry in the back of the restaurant runs off drugs.
- pretendscholar 7y ago
  Tolerance builds up rapidly. If you smoke or otherwise ingest every day it stops affecting you as much.
DonHopkins 7y ago
My friend from New York was unpacking a bunch of old boxes in his house in California about a decade after he moved, and he unexpectedly pulled out this sandwich baggie full of weed, with a post-it note stuck on to the outside. The post-it note read in scrawled handwriting: "TOO STRONG. SAVE FOR LATER." We both looked at each other and exclaimed "It's later!"
geebee 7y ago
I agree, it doesn’t sound like much fun. What you’ve described sounds like a much better “cafe” experience.
- asdff 7y ago
  Which is what this is.
dominotw 7y ago
> Also, certain types of strains are more introspective than others. Hasn't this largely proven to be untrue though ?
- AlecSchueler 7y ago
  What makes you say that? Would be curious to read any study about that if you can remember where you heard that.
  - dominotw 7y ago
    Ok i will try to seach for it once i get to my home laptop. I thought it was more of a marketing thing than any something backed up scientifically. Is is scientifically studied?
- say_it_as_it_is 7y ago
  You're referring to the blurred classification of indica and sativa. Breeders crossed these strains so often that there is less of a distinction. However, there remain pure sativa and pure indica strains that haven't crossed. Now, industry is using a spectrum to describe where in the sativa-indica spectrum the product experience usually lies. Sativa-leaning product are more psychedelic and introspective.
asdff 7y ago
I mean, it's not going to look like a rowdy bar. People are getting stoned. Generally when you start smoking too much, you space out and slow down, and sober up a bit. You get people drinking too much at bars too, doesn't mean you should start cutting your whisky though.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

human 7y ago

I hate when people refer to the United States as “America”. Very misleading.

WilliamEdward 7y ago

first? hardly

trenning 7y ago

I've been talking about this concept with my girlfriend a lot lately. Why aren't there any dispensaries in WA where you can buy a preroll and just sit and chill at the store like a coffee shop? It must be regulations preventing it I assume? I thought it was illegal to smoke inside a business in pretty much every state now. I was thinking some kind of covered patio with those outdoor heaters for winter would be a way around it but now I'm more curious about how they're able to sell food and allow people to smoke inside. At any rate I hope this becomes more popular just at price ranges that aren't so hipster LA

somehnguy 7y ago
I'm not sure on the details but just throwing out what I've seen in NY. Smoke shops around here seem to allow smoking indoors, I assume there are special provisions for that type of business. There is also a bar around here that has a separate smoking room. They have a large air filtration system hanging from the ceiling in there, not sure if thats why they can get away with it. There is even a little door in the wall where they can serve drinks to you while you're in there.
- GhettoMaestro 7y ago
  I believe a separate room (sealed with automatic closing door) and an air extractor/scrubber is required for indoors usage. Where I live, you can offer a smoking section outdoors, but honestly, the air extractors are pretty cheap and help avoid adjacent non-smoking patrons from being bothered. They should be used both indoors and outdoors in my view.
Qworg 7y ago
Almost certainly regulations. There's a cafe/dispensary combination in Redmond, but all of the various parts are separated.
wbronitsky 7y ago
This is an easily searchable answer: https://www.tripsavvy.com/washington-marijuana-smoking-regulations-4134899 https://www.tripsavvy.com/washington-marijuana-smoking-regul... https://www.thestranger.com/green-guide-spring-2018/2018/04/11/26020678/california-and-colorado-are-getting-weed-cafes-why-cant-washington https://www.thestranger.com/green-guide-spring-2018/2018/04/... https://lcb.wa.gov/mj-education/know-the-law https://lcb.wa.gov/mj-education/know-the-law it might or might not be a good idea to do some research before asking others to do research for you

appleflaxen 7y ago

The author states that the food isn't very good, and reaches the conclusion that: > the experience just didn’t feel that special. interesting review; I'm glad he went and shared the experience.

dadarepublic 7y ago

Choice quote for the article: >Mostly, what Lowell Cafe taught me is that I am getting old. I can’t tell you how long we stayed at the cafe, though I doubt we came near to reaching our allotted 90 minutes. A guy that used to smoke copious amounts of weed before he was 21, once again dives into the culture, with an inept guide, and quickly succumbs to the potency of modern strains. It would be nice to have a counter-take from his friend who was supposed to be his guide (and did a terrible job from what I could see). And I totally agree with the commenter who said the cafe should offer strains of lesser potency - and also have a staff knowledgable enough to guide people towards strains suited to their background and needs/wants. It does sound like the cafe has work to do in this regard and I would say this aspect would be a good take-away review, but instead the author just focused on his own negative reaction to super-strong weed his friend suggested. Bummer.

proc0 7y ago
Your ability to handle weed has nothing to do with age, not to mention smoking before 21 is probably very bad in the long run. Your body gets used to copious amounts of THC if you just keep smoking every day for some time, probably 6 months to a year. Everyone can do it, imho, but nobody even considers it because of the social taboo. Everyone is ok with drinking caffeine till the point you get headaches if you stop, but smoking a joint a day is still seen under negative light.
- dadarepublic 7y ago
  I agree and it was what I was trying to point out. I wasn't focused on the age of the smoker at all but the length of time it had been for him as a 'regular' smoker. He obviously needed more curation and guidance. I was probably a bit too snarky in my comment which made it come off as being focused on his age - hope this helps clear the air on that point.
  - proc0 7y ago
    I see, I may have misread it np. Yeah dosage is always the key.

lostgame 7y ago

Toronto has had phenomenal weed cafes in the city for at least a decade - well before legalization. Heck, there’s one (Vapour Central) that’s smack dab in the middle of Yonge and Bloor - about as central as they could get. These are BOYC - bring your own cannabis - places - they provide bongs for rent and vaporizers like the Volcano, as well as live music and comedy. I recall performing there several times. The smoking laws in Ontario are strict. I don’t know if we will see the likes of these outside of the grey market here in Toronto - but the grey market ones are great for what they are. Again - nothing special, especially now that it’s legal. It’s a bar but with weed. I mean; what are you really expecting? But if you enjoy it, they’re good, and are definitely a cool cultural experience.

ksaj 7y ago
Stand up comedy in front of a bunch of stoned Terrawna folk would be so good for the improv ego. Laughs all around. Never a bad joke. Don't forget how long Hot Box has been around in Kensington Market. I don't know when they opened shop, but it was definitely before legalization was on the visible horizon.