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I get the free software principle issue. But that’s like people who won’t use Uber/Lyft and still use Taxis because Taxis have the legal right to sell transpor

by jmpman 7y ago

I get the free software principle issue. But that’s like people who won’t use Uber/Lyft and still use Taxis because Taxis have the legal right to sell transportation and Uber/Lyft are/were operating against the law (if not the letter, at least the spirit). I applaud those people, but it’s a sign of their inflexibility. I also get the people who can’t afford a legal software lic for Windows and instead of pirating, they use Linux. Also, upstanding humans who I applaud, but they’re inflexible in their ethics. Good? Bad? Certainly different. I’m just pointing out that using Linux on the desktop is impractical, driven by reasons that aren’t objectively “better”, and the people attracted to it are doing it for reasons which reflect more on their personality (inflexible) than the underlying technology, and the reason for the fracture in Linux desktop managers is due to the users personality traits. And for the record, I’m right on the borderline of using Linux on the desktop, but each time I start down that path, I question - why am I really doing this?

rvz 7y ago
> I question - why am I really doing this? Honestly, I don't blame you for asking this as I also ask myself the same question every-time I use a Linux distro. Even as a software developer, I just want to get my work done which I can do on my Macbook or my PC which has Ubuntu dual-booting with Windows just fine. I try to ignore those miscellaneous "Ubuntu app has crashed" problems I get every now and then but then again, I only use Linux to test some software I wrote which has been ported to the platform. I don't really bother with editing those dotfiles or sudoing my way into customising the whole GUI via a config file deep in the system folder. Sure, it is a free and open-source operating system which is great, but if touching a setting results it in resetting the whole OS, then back to Windows it is for me.
- jraph 7y ago
  > Ubuntu app has crashed Try disabling apport in /etc/default/apport Or with the command: sudo systemctl disable apport Yes, it sucks having to do that.
- anongraddebt 7y ago
  I have a macbook (purchased this summer) as well as a dell inspiron running linux (for the past couple years). Coming from Windows, Linux felt like a relief from many headaches. No bloat (I can't overstate this), no weird UI that couldn't decide whether the device was a tablet or laptop or desktop, programs opening right after I'd click on them, customization, etc. There will be cases where the trade-offs involved for a specific user mean Linux isn't really a viable option. For some, there are different trade-offs that make Linux an attractive choice. ------- Personal note: Even OS X seems bloated at times to me, and I don't mean the pre-installed packages. I mean things like the number of options for some menu bar selections. Also, for pdf viewing out of the box viewers for many Linux distros win hands down compared to Adobe (if you are simply looking to read pdfs). In 'utility' programs like Adobe, you might have 200+ things you can choose to do. With a Linux viewer you get like 5-10. Gaming and lack of Office are the primary downsides. Steam mitigates the first to a non-trivial degree. If Google would just improve the robustness of Docs and Sheets a bit more, then some of the of more robust and beginner-friendly distros would (I bet) get some more traction. I like coding on my Mac, and the experience of using OS X to be best described as "solid". I miss spending most of my time on Linux though.
jraph 7y ago
What is wrong in making choices after ethical reasons? I want to know, because this is what drives me. Being flexible on principles is acting against your (core) values, and making compromises is not always even the most pragmatic thing to do. Not saying you should never make compromises. First, nobody is perfect. Second, everybody has their own thresholds and this is fine. You say that you are borderline of using Linux on the desktop. Surely you have a motivation behind that? You need to answer the question you raise at the end of your comment before switching. Switching OSes can be a bit disruptive and it takes time to adapt. It takes will. You should not change for the sake of changing. Here are hints though: - you think that free software is the way forward. People should control their digital life. - you think that open source is the way forward. It's just a way more efficient way to build software, frees us from perpetually reinventing the wheel by building "common goods" and enables meaningful and powerful collective work, even across companies. - you like Unix. You think that it is a nice way to organise and design an operating system. - you like package managers on Linux. apt install stuff, or click stuff in the store, and boom, it is installed. No bullshit, everything is free, no demo versions. - no tracking, no ads, no hidden shenanigans, no need to have a Microsoft or Apple account to have updates. - you like having the right and the possibility to modify or study any piece of software you use. - you like a fast boot and virus free environment. - you like being close to your development environment. - you find KDE/GNOME beautiful. - you like the customization the ecosystem enables. - you are curious and like to explore new stuff. - ...? To each their own. What's more, I find Linux practical, but not everybody does and there are downsides to use Linux instead of a more mainstream OS (app support, help, ...) :-)
detaro 7y ago
> Linux on the desktop is impractical It's really not. It might not be the best choice for what you want or are doing, but it's not generally "impractical".

by jmpman 7y ago

rvz 7y ago

> I question - why am I really doing this? Honestly, I don't blame you for asking this as I also ask myself the same question every-time I use a Linux distro. Even as a software developer, I just want to get my work done which I can do on my Macbook or my PC which has Ubuntu dual-booting with Windows just fine. I try to ignore those miscellaneous "Ubuntu app has crashed" problems I get every now and then but then again, I only use Linux to test some software I wrote which has been ported to the platform. I don't really bother with editing those dotfiles or sudoing my way into customising the whole GUI via a config file deep in the system folder. Sure, it is a free and open-source operating system which is great, but if touching a setting results it in resetting the whole OS, then back to Windows it is for me.

jraph 7y ago
> Ubuntu app has crashed Try disabling apport in /etc/default/apport Or with the command: sudo systemctl disable apport Yes, it sucks having to do that.
anongraddebt 7y ago
I have a macbook (purchased this summer) as well as a dell inspiron running linux (for the past couple years). Coming from Windows, Linux felt like a relief from many headaches. No bloat (I can't overstate this), no weird UI that couldn't decide whether the device was a tablet or laptop or desktop, programs opening right after I'd click on them, customization, etc. There will be cases where the trade-offs involved for a specific user mean Linux isn't really a viable option. For some, there are different trade-offs that make Linux an attractive choice. ------- Personal note: Even OS X seems bloated at times to me, and I don't mean the pre-installed packages. I mean things like the number of options for some menu bar selections. Also, for pdf viewing out of the box viewers for many Linux distros win hands down compared to Adobe (if you are simply looking to read pdfs). In 'utility' programs like Adobe, you might have 200+ things you can choose to do. With a Linux viewer you get like 5-10. Gaming and lack of Office are the primary downsides. Steam mitigates the first to a non-trivial degree. If Google would just improve the robustness of Docs and Sheets a bit more, then some of the of more robust and beginner-friendly distros would (I bet) get some more traction. I like coding on my Mac, and the experience of using OS X to be best described as "solid". I miss spending most of my time on Linux though.

jraph 7y ago

What is wrong in making choices after ethical reasons? I want to know, because this is what drives me. Being flexible on principles is acting against your (core) values, and making compromises is not always even the most pragmatic thing to do. Not saying you should never make compromises. First, nobody is perfect. Second, everybody has their own thresholds and this is fine. You say that you are borderline of using Linux on the desktop. Surely you have a motivation behind that? You need to answer the question you raise at the end of your comment before switching. Switching OSes can be a bit disruptive and it takes time to adapt. It takes will. You should not change for the sake of changing. Here are hints though: - you think that free software is the way forward. People should control their digital life. - you think that open source is the way forward. It's just a way more efficient way to build software, frees us from perpetually reinventing the wheel by building "common goods" and enables meaningful and powerful collective work, even across companies. - you like Unix. You think that it is a nice way to organise and design an operating system. - you like package managers on Linux. apt install stuff, or click stuff in the store, and boom, it is installed. No bullshit, everything is free, no demo versions. - no tracking, no ads, no hidden shenanigans, no need to have a Microsoft or Apple account to have updates. - you like having the right and the possibility to modify or study any piece of software you use. - you like a fast boot and virus free environment. - you like being close to your development environment. - you find KDE/GNOME beautiful. - you like the customization the ecosystem enables. - you are curious and like to explore new stuff. - ...? To each their own. What's more, I find Linux practical, but not everybody does and there are downsides to use Linux instead of a more mainstream OS (app support, help, ...) :-)

detaro 7y ago

> Linux on the desktop is impractical It's really not. It might not be the best choice for what you want or are doing, but it's not generally "impractical".