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I mainly use GNU/Linux by principle. It just so happens to be the best operating system too, but that is mostly a nice coincidence ;-) My point is, you cannot

by jraph 7y ago

I mainly use GNU/Linux by principle. It just so happens to be the best operating system too, but that is mostly a nice coincidence ;-) My point is, you cannot draw any conclusion on Linux users because they use it for different reasons and I certainly didn't start using it because I was not satisfied with Windows: I was mostly curious I guess, and liked the little games that came with Mandrake 9 (I was a child). Most Linux users don't make their own desktop anyway. And you cannot blame people who write their own desktop manager for fun and let express their creativity in their free time, or to implement their vision, or to fit their need. They possibly wouldn't have contributed to any existing solution anyway. What's more, you don't seem to have done much research before this heavy, misguided critic. Speaking for the two big desktops, first we had KDE. But the FSF was disatisfied with the fact that Qt was non-free. They started three projects: - a free reimplementation of Qt. - lobbying for Qt to be freed. - an alternative, free desktop: GNOME. The second and third projects succeeded so the first was dropped. But by the time the second project succeded, the third was already well advanced. That is why we have Gnome besides KDE. For ideological reasons, not because someone was not satisfied by KDE and decided to create GNOME instead of contributing to KDE. The reality is more complicated than what you say. I am sorry that you were annoyed by colleagues using Linux but your perception of them is not an accurate representation of the world. And I can see that KDE (or Gnome indeed) is a good solution, thank you very much.

jmpman 7y ago
I get the free software principle issue. But that’s like people who won’t use Uber/Lyft and still use Taxis because Taxis have the legal right to sell transportation and Uber/Lyft are/were operating against the law (if not the letter, at least the spirit). I applaud those people, but it’s a sign of their inflexibility. I also get the people who can’t afford a legal software lic for Windows and instead of pirating, they use Linux. Also, upstanding humans who I applaud, but they’re inflexible in their ethics. Good? Bad? Certainly different. I’m just pointing out that using Linux on the desktop is impractical, driven by reasons that aren’t objectively “better”, and the people attracted to it are doing it for reasons which reflect more on their personality (inflexible) than the underlying technology, and the reason for the fracture in Linux desktop managers is due to the users personality traits. And for the record, I’m right on the borderline of using Linux on the desktop, but each time I start down that path, I question - why am I really doing this?
- rvz 7y ago
  > I question - why am I really doing this? Honestly, I don't blame you for asking this as I also ask myself the same question every-time I use a Linux distro. Even as a software developer, I just want to get my work done which I can do on my Macbook or my PC which has Ubuntu dual-booting with Windows just fine. I try to ignore those miscellaneous "Ubuntu app has crashed" problems I get every now and then but then again, I only use Linux to test some software I wrote which has been ported to the platform. I don't really bother with editing those dotfiles or sudoing my way into customising the whole GUI via a config file deep in the system folder. Sure, it is a free and open-source operating system which is great, but if touching a setting results it in resetting the whole OS, then back to Windows it is for me.
  - jraph 7y ago
    > Ubuntu app has crashed Try disabling apport in /etc/default/apport Or with the command: sudo systemctl disable apport Yes, it sucks having to do that.
  - anongraddebt 7y ago
    I have a macbook (purchased this summer) as well as a dell inspiron running linux (for the past couple years). Coming from Windows, Linux felt like a relief from many headaches. No bloat (I can't overstate this), no weird UI that couldn't decide whether the device was a tablet or laptop or desktop, programs opening right after I'd click on them, customization, etc. There will be cases where the trade-offs involved for a specific user mean Linux isn't really a viable option. For some, there are different trade-offs that make Linux an attractive choice. ------- Personal note: Even OS X seems bloated at times to me, and I don't mean the pre-installed packages. I mean things like the number of options for some menu bar selections. Also, for pdf viewing out of the box viewers for many Linux distros win hands down compared to Adobe (if you are simply looking to read pdfs). In 'utility' programs like Adobe, you might have 200+ things you can choose to do. With a Linux viewer you get like 5-10. Gaming and lack of Office are the primary downsides. Steam mitigates the first to a non-trivial degree. If Google would just improve the robustness of Docs and Sheets a bit more, then some of the of more robust and beginner-friendly distros would (I bet) get some more traction. I like coding on my Mac, and the experience of using OS X to be best described as "solid". I miss spending most of my time on Linux though.

by jraph 7y ago

jmpman 7y ago

I get the free software principle issue. But that’s like people who won’t use Uber/Lyft and still use Taxis because Taxis have the legal right to sell transportation and Uber/Lyft are/were operating against the law (if not the letter, at least the spirit). I applaud those people, but it’s a sign of their inflexibility. I also get the people who can’t afford a legal software lic for Windows and instead of pirating, they use Linux. Also, upstanding humans who I applaud, but they’re inflexible in their ethics. Good? Bad? Certainly different. I’m just pointing out that using Linux on the desktop is impractical, driven by reasons that aren’t objectively “better”, and the people attracted to it are doing it for reasons which reflect more on their personality (inflexible) than the underlying technology, and the reason for the fracture in Linux desktop managers is due to the users personality traits. And for the record, I’m right on the borderline of using Linux on the desktop, but each time I start down that path, I question - why am I really doing this?

rvz 7y ago
> I question - why am I really doing this? Honestly, I don't blame you for asking this as I also ask myself the same question every-time I use a Linux distro. Even as a software developer, I just want to get my work done which I can do on my Macbook or my PC which has Ubuntu dual-booting with Windows just fine. I try to ignore those miscellaneous "Ubuntu app has crashed" problems I get every now and then but then again, I only use Linux to test some software I wrote which has been ported to the platform. I don't really bother with editing those dotfiles or sudoing my way into customising the whole GUI via a config file deep in the system folder. Sure, it is a free and open-source operating system which is great, but if touching a setting results it in resetting the whole OS, then back to Windows it is for me.
- jraph 7y ago
  > Ubuntu app has crashed Try disabling apport in /etc/default/apport Or with the command: sudo systemctl disable apport Yes, it sucks having to do that.
- anongraddebt 7y ago
  I have a macbook (purchased this summer) as well as a dell inspiron running linux (for the past couple years). Coming from Windows, Linux felt like a relief from many headaches. No bloat (I can't overstate this), no weird UI that couldn't decide whether the device was a tablet or laptop or desktop, programs opening right after I'd click on them, customization, etc. There will be cases where the trade-offs involved for a specific user mean Linux isn't really a viable option. For some, there are different trade-offs that make Linux an attractive choice. ------- Personal note: Even OS X seems bloated at times to me, and I don't mean the pre-installed packages. I mean things like the number of options for some menu bar selections. Also, for pdf viewing out of the box viewers for many Linux distros win hands down compared to Adobe (if you are simply looking to read pdfs). In 'utility' programs like Adobe, you might have 200+ things you can choose to do. With a Linux viewer you get like 5-10. Gaming and lack of Office are the primary downsides. Steam mitigates the first to a non-trivial degree. If Google would just improve the robustness of Docs and Sheets a bit more, then some of the of more robust and beginner-friendly distros would (I bet) get some more traction. I like coding on my Mac, and the experience of using OS X to be best described as "solid". I miss spending most of my time on Linux though.