4 ms·

This type of event should make us all concerned, not just because of the oppression people of Iran are being subjected to, but also because the exact same thing

This type of event should make us all concerned, not just because of the oppression people of Iran are being subjected to, but also because the exact same thing is happening in many places in the world, eg China, but even more importantly, because it could very easily happen to so-called "free" societies. The problem is that internet is not as decentralized as everyone seems to think. To wit: sites seized by the FBI have a very hard time getting back up, but that's far from the only example. A really "free" internet needs two things: 1) a decentralized, blockchain-based DNS. This is actually not hard technically, but it is hard to deploy when the incumbent DNS system is ingrained everywhere like a cancer. 2) a routing infrastructure where every participant offers global routes (a mesh network). This is technically harder, especially in less densely populated area (unless we build a secondary, tor-like internet on top of the existing one). The day this type of infrastructure (every user a router) comes alive, censorship will get much, much harder. Decentralize all teh things !

zozbot234 7y ago
> a decentralized, blockchain-based DNS Namecoin was one of the first uses of blockchain tech. It's even reasonably easy to "deploy" alongside DNS, since it just gives you an extra TLD.
xiphias2 7y ago
At this point there are enough wifi tethering capable mobile phones all over the world to run a mostly decentralized internet. Also Lightning network is capable of sending messages, but the infrastructure is just being built. Without micropayments the incentive structures wouldn't be there to build the decentralized internet (which of course means mostly centralized in practice, but increased fees instead of disrupted network in case of government action). At the same time Lightning Network needs people to adopt Bitcoin, in which the adoption is about 10M people all over the world, which is in the 0.1% order. At about 2x / year growth, it will take about 6-10 years until it gets practical.
- DuskStar 7y ago
  > At this point there are enough wifi tethering capable mobile phones all over the world to run a mostly decentralized internet. What, are they supposed to make a mesh network? Because cell services are just as centralized.
  - xiphias2 7y ago
    Of course. You just need a few people who connect cities with other cities with a lasers that the government can't find, and payed well for it.
- yyyk 7y ago
  LN nodes need to be active all the time or you lose your money, right? I doubt anyone in these types of countries would risk there - either losing their money or keep a detectable node active all the time. Furthermore, if they're not gifted coins, they'd have to convert from $LOCALCURRENCY to Bitcoin (at the very least for bootstrapping), and I don't see how that conversion could be made secretly given the control these governments have.
antpls 7y ago
Even if phones could be used as relays, or directly link to satellites, the government could always make the technology illegal on its territory. Right now, couldn't a rogue Iranian ASN already allows internet access for a few selected people? (Who knows, maybe they even have undeclared optical fibers which go beyond frontiers) Some protesters may have a privileged access, but they don't talk about it to keep it up. Decentralization or not, a government can always ban a technology or a subset of it

zozbot234 7y ago

> a decentralized, blockchain-based DNS Namecoin was one of the first uses of blockchain tech. It's even reasonably easy to "deploy" alongside DNS, since it just gives you an extra TLD.

xiphias2 7y ago

At this point there are enough wifi tethering capable mobile phones all over the world to run a mostly decentralized internet. Also Lightning network is capable of sending messages, but the infrastructure is just being built. Without micropayments the incentive structures wouldn't be there to build the decentralized internet (which of course means mostly centralized in practice, but increased fees instead of disrupted network in case of government action). At the same time Lightning Network needs people to adopt Bitcoin, in which the adoption is about 10M people all over the world, which is in the 0.1% order. At about 2x / year growth, it will take about 6-10 years until it gets practical.

DuskStar 7y ago
> At this point there are enough wifi tethering capable mobile phones all over the world to run a mostly decentralized internet. What, are they supposed to make a mesh network? Because cell services are just as centralized.
- xiphias2 7y ago
  Of course. You just need a few people who connect cities with other cities with a lasers that the government can't find, and payed well for it.
yyyk 7y ago
LN nodes need to be active all the time or you lose your money, right? I doubt anyone in these types of countries would risk there - either losing their money or keep a detectable node active all the time. Furthermore, if they're not gifted coins, they'd have to convert from $LOCALCURRENCY to Bitcoin (at the very least for bootstrapping), and I don't see how that conversion could be made secretly given the control these governments have.

antpls 7y ago

Even if phones could be used as relays, or directly link to satellites, the government could always make the technology illegal on its territory. Right now, couldn't a rogue Iranian ASN already allows internet access for a few selected people? (Who knows, maybe they even have undeclared optical fibers which go beyond frontiers) Some protesters may have a privileged access, but they don't talk about it to keep it up. Decentralization or not, a government can always ban a technology or a subset of it