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I'm glad this exists. However what I'd look for in a social contract is something about the level of technical support the users should expect. When the issue

I'm glad this exists. However what I'd look for in a social contract is something about the level of technical support the users should expect. When the issue of free software support comes up, too often I see the usual "OUR COMMUNITY IS NOT YOUR FREE TECHNICAL SUPPORT WE OWE YOU NOTHING"... o..okay, fair enough. I can't waltz into your community and demand your time for free... But you _do_ want me to use your system, right? You _do_ think that Free Software is a viable alternative to proprietary software, where the creators literally _owe me_ support for their software because I paid them for it? That's why it would be nice if they laid out exactly what it is that they are committing themselves to. Not just writing code and putting the thing together, but a certain (of course not unlimited) amount of assistance, so I know I won't be totally left hanging. Maybe some OSes are too much of a hobby or experiment and they don't want to offer that level of support. Totally fine. We should expect that sort of thing in the social contract, so users know what they're getting themselves into, and so that we can all step back and evaluate whether Free Software is a viable alternative to propriety yet.

giancarlostoro 7y ago
Whats worse is they could you know.... Just charge for support. I believe Ubuntu and RedHat do this? May as well just use Ubuntu instead I guess? I used to be big on Ubuntu / Debian but after trying openSUSE I dont know if I can stick to either anymore.
- orblivion 7y ago
  I never thought to get paid Ubuntu support for some reason. I really should consider it. I'm moving onto Qubes now. I understand if they don't want to organize such a thing. It would be nice if there were indeed a 3rd party paid support option, and they could just link to it.
LfLxfxxLxfxx 7y ago
You can buy support from a third party.
- orblivion 7y ago
  This crossed my mind. It would be nice if options were linked.
  - zozbot234 7y ago
    They are. https://www.debian.org/consultants/ https://www.debian.org/consultants/
    - orblivion 7y ago
      Perhaps this explains why I'm getting downvoted. I didn't mean to dig on Debian in particular at all. I appreciate this link, it may be helpful some day.
scarejunba 7y ago
No, I like it this way. I feel like I'm not a client of the community but a participant. It's my favourite part about open-source.
- ncmncm 7y ago
  It's my favorite part about Free Software.
  - scarejunba 7y ago
    That is what I meant, sorry.
Nullabillity 7y ago
> where the creators literally _owe me_ support for their software because I paid them for it? Have you ever tried asking for this. At best you'll get "you're holding it wrong, get bent", and even that's usually only if you have the expensive enterprise support package.
- orblivion 7y ago
  I suppose this is a fair point, it's pretty bad often times. But at least they don't turn you away off the bat. FWIW I just contacted Google support with help with an issue with their Play Movies on a smart TV. Turns out what I needed to do was in the Smart TV general settings, not even the app per se, and they still helped me with that. The phone support person wasn't able to help but the chat support was.
orblivion 7y ago
People voting me down, I want to try to bolster my case. I'm going to use QubesOS just as an example because it's fresh in my memory. By no means do I want to pick on them in particular. I go to qubes-os.org. I don't see "A community of hobbyists who put together an operating system. Join in if you'd like, but you're responsible for what happens. Good luck and have fun!". I see "A Reasonably Secure Operating System". I see articles in the press, all the powerful components under the hood. For God's sake I see Edward Snowden endorsing it. It looks like they're selling it. I go to qubes-os.org/support. I see "They are not your personal, paid support service. No one owes you a reply. No one here is responsible for solving your problems for you.". This sends a mixed message. Maybe it makes perfect sense to you because you're deep in this world yourself, and it's just "how it works". But then I would argue you're not thinking about the whole goal of Free Software, which is to ultimately replace proprietary software. Free Software was supposed to give you a reasonably replacement of proprietary software. Maybe without all the bells and whistles, but nobody says "and we'll leave you out to dry if nobody feels like helping you". Imagine, somebody trusted this great, secure operating system. Suddenly something goes wrong. They post on this high volume community support list. Nobody answers. "But I'm in a total jam now. I trusted your operating system." "NOBODY OWES YOU HELP". You're leaving people out to dry with no recourse. I think people are not thinking of this edge case. Of course you can get paid support, at worst from a third party. That covers my point entirely from a practical standpoint. However this leaves two problems in my mind. 1) Where _is_ the paid technical support option for (for instance) QubesOS? I don't know if it exists. When and if it does, it would be nice for Qubes to at least link to a few options from their support page. 2) The mixed messaging I described above is still a problem in my view. It really sounds like you're telling people "if we find you annoying we will leave you out to dry". You could at least mention the _prospect_ of 3rd party assistance. I think it sends a different message about how this whole ecosystem works. EDIT: I guess Debian does exactly what I mean: https://www.debian.org/consultants/ https://www.debian.org/consultants/

giancarlostoro 7y ago

Whats worse is they could you know.... Just charge for support. I believe Ubuntu and RedHat do this? May as well just use Ubuntu instead I guess? I used to be big on Ubuntu / Debian but after trying openSUSE I dont know if I can stick to either anymore.

orblivion 7y ago
I never thought to get paid Ubuntu support for some reason. I really should consider it. I'm moving onto Qubes now. I understand if they don't want to organize such a thing. It would be nice if there were indeed a 3rd party paid support option, and they could just link to it.

LfLxfxxLxfxx 7y ago

You can buy support from a third party.

orblivion 7y ago
This crossed my mind. It would be nice if options were linked.
- zozbot234 7y ago
  They are. https://www.debian.org/consultants/ https://www.debian.org/consultants/
  - orblivion 7y ago
    Perhaps this explains why I'm getting downvoted. I didn't mean to dig on Debian in particular at all. I appreciate this link, it may be helpful some day.

scarejunba 7y ago

No, I like it this way. I feel like I'm not a client of the community but a participant. It's my favourite part about open-source.

ncmncm 7y ago
It's my favorite part about Free Software.
- scarejunba 7y ago
  That is what I meant, sorry.

Nullabillity 7y ago

> where the creators literally _owe me_ support for their software because I paid them for it? Have you ever tried asking for this. At best you'll get "you're holding it wrong, get bent", and even that's usually only if you have the expensive enterprise support package.

orblivion 7y ago
I suppose this is a fair point, it's pretty bad often times. But at least they don't turn you away off the bat. FWIW I just contacted Google support with help with an issue with their Play Movies on a smart TV. Turns out what I needed to do was in the Smart TV general settings, not even the app per se, and they still helped me with that. The phone support person wasn't able to help but the chat support was.

orblivion 7y ago

People voting me down, I want to try to bolster my case. I'm going to use QubesOS just as an example because it's fresh in my memory. By no means do I want to pick on them in particular. I go to qubes-os.org. I don't see "A community of hobbyists who put together an operating system. Join in if you'd like, but you're responsible for what happens. Good luck and have fun!". I see "A Reasonably Secure Operating System". I see articles in the press, all the powerful components under the hood. For God's sake I see Edward Snowden endorsing it. It looks like they're selling it. I go to qubes-os.org/support. I see "They are not your personal, paid support service. No one owes you a reply. No one here is responsible for solving your problems for you.". This sends a mixed message. Maybe it makes perfect sense to you because you're deep in this world yourself, and it's just "how it works". But then I would argue you're not thinking about the whole goal of Free Software, which is to ultimately replace proprietary software. Free Software was supposed to give you a reasonably replacement of proprietary software. Maybe without all the bells and whistles, but nobody says "and we'll leave you out to dry if nobody feels like helping you". Imagine, somebody trusted this great, secure operating system. Suddenly something goes wrong. They post on this high volume community support list. Nobody answers. "But I'm in a total jam now. I trusted your operating system." "NOBODY OWES YOU HELP". You're leaving people out to dry with no recourse. I think people are not thinking of this edge case. Of course you can get paid support, at worst from a third party. That covers my point entirely from a practical standpoint. However this leaves two problems in my mind. 1) Where _is_ the paid technical support option for (for instance) QubesOS? I don't know if it exists. When and if it does, it would be nice for Qubes to at least link to a few options from their support page. 2) The mixed messaging I described above is still a problem in my view. It really sounds like you're telling people "if we find you annoying we will leave you out to dry". You could at least mention the _prospect_ of 3rd party assistance. I think it sends a different message about how this whole ecosystem works. EDIT: I guess Debian does exactly what I mean: https://www.debian.org/consultants/ https://www.debian.org/consultants/