4 ms·

> Most of it is wasted intellectual effort. I would challenge this. I would say _some_ of it is wasted, but most of it works towards making the code more under

> Most of it is wasted intellectual effort. I would challenge this. I would say _some_ of it is wasted, but most of it works towards making the code more understandable. And code being understandable to the next person to read it (both in the small "what is this block doing" sense and in the larger "what is this algorithm doing" sense) is very important.

sidlls 7y ago
I can't speak for the GP, but my interpretation is that the wasted effort comes from doing what you describe when, instead, one could have chosen a simpler language and produced understandable (albeit "ugly", "not eloquent") code the first time round. Then one can turn those intellectual wheels on a more interesting problem to solve.
- chc 7y ago
  The assumption that simplicity in a language naturally encourages understandable programs is a mistake IMO. Language complexity generally exists because the language is trying to shoulder some of the complexity that would otherwise go into your program. For example, Brainfuck is nearly the simplest language possible — you could write a full rundown of its features on a sticky note — but programs written in it are not very readable. Even Go did this by adding async features into the core language. This is a complication that doesn't exist in the older languages it was intended to build on, but by building that complexity into the language, they reduced the burden of using it in your code.
dunkelheit 7y ago
Some of it is wasted, some is genuinely useful and to know which is which you need experience and good judgment. My point is that it is incredibly easy to fall into the trap of pursuing maximum code beauty and abstraction and wasting a lot of time in trying to attain some shining ideal, especially if the language is conducive to it.
tfha 7y ago
I find other people's go code is generally much more readable than other people's code in most other languages. Go's simplicity and heavy idiomatic culture means all the code more or less looks identical. This is great for team projects.

sidlls 7y ago

I can't speak for the GP, but my interpretation is that the wasted effort comes from doing what you describe when, instead, one could have chosen a simpler language and produced understandable (albeit "ugly", "not eloquent") code the first time round. Then one can turn those intellectual wheels on a more interesting problem to solve.

chc 7y ago
The assumption that simplicity in a language naturally encourages understandable programs is a mistake IMO. Language complexity generally exists because the language is trying to shoulder some of the complexity that would otherwise go into your program. For example, Brainfuck is nearly the simplest language possible — you could write a full rundown of its features on a sticky note — but programs written in it are not very readable. Even Go did this by adding async features into the core language. This is a complication that doesn't exist in the older languages it was intended to build on, but by building that complexity into the language, they reduced the burden of using it in your code.

dunkelheit 7y ago

Some of it is wasted, some is genuinely useful and to know which is which you need experience and good judgment. My point is that it is incredibly easy to fall into the trap of pursuing maximum code beauty and abstraction and wasting a lot of time in trying to attain some shining ideal, especially if the language is conducive to it.

tfha 7y ago

I find other people's go code is generally much more readable than other people's code in most other languages. Go's simplicity and heavy idiomatic culture means all the code more or less looks identical. This is great for team projects.