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What a load of shit. I love the guy trying to infer Microsoft's ad profit centers by trying to read between the lines of marketing copy. Entertaining stuff. Bu

What a load of shit. I love the guy trying to infer Microsoft's ad profit centers by trying to read between the lines of marketing copy. Entertaining stuff. But let's not confuse this for grown up analysis. Microsoft releases their financials, like every publicly traded corporation. Bing search ads are a small part of revenu, about 5% of what Azure earns, and stable. Desktop ads are a vanishingly small line item. Microsoft's strategy is based on platform sales — you know, the part of their business whose revenue is doubling every quarter. Google's strategy is based on "collect it all" data hoarding and ad sales. But the punchline is really the best part. "Apple has lit the torch." Siri and Cortana are analogous products, and they are the motivation for both their companies' data collection. Actually a voice assistant gives a company a ton of power, but it can be used for different purposes. Alexa doesn't exist for ad revenue, it exists to push more sales through Amazon. Cortana exists to push Azure platform integrated features in Windows, effectively doubling down the value of the platform investment. Siri exists to push Apple integrated features and to guard the gates of their walled garden. The only valid part if the article is that it's hard to believe that anyone really wants a voice assistant.

neilpanchal 7y ago
You’re right that I’ve not backed some of the claims with objective financial analysis. I searched for annual reports, then went off to finishing the post, in the interest of time. I thought that it would take a long time to read the reports to find out the revenue broken down into various business segments instead of “Microsoft Search Network” bucket. Furthermore, whether ad business is a 1/20th of Microsoft’s revenue, is by itself not an indicator. It’s still a 7 billion dollar business. That’s larger than a lot of successful companies. Apple’s services business has grown rapidly from 0% to the second largest source of revenue. Microsoft, Adobe, etc are all aggressively trying to penetrate the ad market. Microsoft has failed to capitalize on IE/Edge or Bing, as much as it tried. Now, they’re hostile to privacy and have permeated their ad strategy to operating system level. I don’t agree with you about Siri and Cortana. I was trying to say that Apple is leading the path, “lit the torch”, to become a privacy centric business. And they’re openly advertising their products with Privacy motifs. That’s what I see. It wasn’t about Cortana or Siri. I’m glad I was able to entertain! Edit: If you’d like a thorough analysis, I strongly suggest subscribing to Stratechery blog.
- user84 7y ago
  You have been more than entertaining. Thank you
- Hawxy 7y ago
  This article is incredibly misleading and I can't believe almost everyone on HN is taking it at face value. You've clearly made assumptions to fit your conclusion without verifying the validity of the assumptions themselves. The items you list at the top are just part of the normal telemetry subsystem and have nothing to do with advertising. Windows has an separate system for advertising and it's completely isolated from telemetry data unless users opt-in to "Tailored experiences" within the privacy settings. (See: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4468236/diagnostics-feedback-and-privacy-in-windows-10-microsoft-privacy https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4468236/diagnostics...) Ad tracking within windows is limited to the windows store apps you open and what you search for in the start menu if web-searches with Bing are enabled, which is entire gist of the "Microsoft Search Network". Opting-out from "Advertising ID" during install/in privacy settings, or disabling personalised ads globally @ choice.microsoft.com stops this behaviour entirely. Instead of making assumptions about Cortana, you could've just checked the privacy guide: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4468233/cortana-and-privacy-microsoft-privacy https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4468233/cortana-and... I quote: "Cortana does not use the data you share to target ads to you. Ads may accompany search results that Cortana delivers, just as they do when you search on Bing.com. Even if Cortana does the searching for you, your web search queries will be treated as described in the Bing section of the Microsoft Privacy Statement." Using Cortana doesn't give Microsoft any more ad money over someone just doing a plain Bing search.
  - neilpanchal 7y ago
    Do you mind if I paraphrase your comment and add it to the article? Thanks for checking the privacy guide, it establishes what Microsoft officially has to say about their data collection methods. And, I should have checked it before writing the article. I am cynical of any company that is trying to impede user's ability to turn privacy related settings off. They go out of their way to make it difficult. There are no more than 2 dozen privacy related switches in Control Panel. Everything is checked on by default. This whole thing reeks of insiduous tracking, spying and surveillance, despite of what the privacy guide says. I am very, very cynical. Also, there is no assurance that government agencies have access to a wealth of information that's collected as part of "user experience improvement". Furthermore, all this data collection, even if it is not used for advertisement currently has potential to be used in the future for ad tracking. Microsoft has full control over changing their privacy policy next day. I lost the count of emails that I get every other day that eBay, or YouTube or Twitter has changed their privacy policy. Assuming benevolent actions from the company collecting data, whether it is for "telemetry" purposes or for ad tracking, has the risk of being hacked. I presume Microsoft has taken enough steps to anonymize personally identifiable information or as they call it PII in the circles. The plug needs to be pulled from the point of origin of the data, if it is not collected, it is not going to be misused. Questions that I would like to ask Microsoft: - Why make it difficult for user to opt-out of privacy related settings? - Why employ dark patterns to trick users into submitting their data? - Why push Cortana across the board from "Home" to "Enterprise" editions, where no one has asked for it, no one uses it and it is impossible to get rid of? - Why not make it an opt-in process as opposed to opting out?
commandersaki 7y ago
> The only valid part if the article is that it's hard to believe that anyone really wants a voice assistant. I think voice assistance shines on mobile devices because of clumsy UI. Here's an elaborate example: When I finish a dentist appointment I negotiate a follow up with the receptionist after paying my bill. I can then dictate to siri to schedule the next appointment rather than clumsily typing it all in. A more obvious example: hands-free operation when operating a vehicle, e.g. "Siri read me the last message I received (from Alice)". Unless you're completely inept with your computer there's really no reason to use the voice interface. I think we already learned this lesson otherwise Dragon Dictate would've taken off decades ago.
- muststopmyths 7y ago
  >Unless you're completely inept with your computer there's really no reason to use the voice interface. I think we already learned this lesson otherwise Dragon Dictate would've taken off decades ago. I must be completely inept because I find saying "Hey Cortana, remind me to abc at xyz" right when something occurs to me a lot more convenient than opening my web-based calender and going through the rigmarole of setting up a reminder.
  - a_t48 7y ago
    I'm with you there.
    - commandersaki 7y ago
      You fellas can be the exception in that you're not inept but you found a use where nobody else really has (or discovered).
- 9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago
  Unless you're completely inept with computer it's always faster to do the tasks with hands.

neilpanchal 7y ago

You’re right that I’ve not backed some of the claims with objective financial analysis. I searched for annual reports, then went off to finishing the post, in the interest of time. I thought that it would take a long time to read the reports to find out the revenue broken down into various business segments instead of “Microsoft Search Network” bucket. Furthermore, whether ad business is a 1/20th of Microsoft’s revenue, is by itself not an indicator. It’s still a 7 billion dollar business. That’s larger than a lot of successful companies. Apple’s services business has grown rapidly from 0% to the second largest source of revenue. Microsoft, Adobe, etc are all aggressively trying to penetrate the ad market. Microsoft has failed to capitalize on IE/Edge or Bing, as much as it tried. Now, they’re hostile to privacy and have permeated their ad strategy to operating system level. I don’t agree with you about Siri and Cortana. I was trying to say that Apple is leading the path, “lit the torch”, to become a privacy centric business. And they’re openly advertising their products with Privacy motifs. That’s what I see. It wasn’t about Cortana or Siri. I’m glad I was able to entertain! Edit: If you’d like a thorough analysis, I strongly suggest subscribing to Stratechery blog.

user84 7y ago
You have been more than entertaining. Thank you
Hawxy 7y ago
This article is incredibly misleading and I can't believe almost everyone on HN is taking it at face value. You've clearly made assumptions to fit your conclusion without verifying the validity of the assumptions themselves. The items you list at the top are just part of the normal telemetry subsystem and have nothing to do with advertising. Windows has an separate system for advertising and it's completely isolated from telemetry data unless users opt-in to "Tailored experiences" within the privacy settings. (See: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4468236/diagnostics-feedback-and-privacy-in-windows-10-microsoft-privacy https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4468236/diagnostics...) Ad tracking within windows is limited to the windows store apps you open and what you search for in the start menu if web-searches with Bing are enabled, which is entire gist of the "Microsoft Search Network". Opting-out from "Advertising ID" during install/in privacy settings, or disabling personalised ads globally @ choice.microsoft.com stops this behaviour entirely. Instead of making assumptions about Cortana, you could've just checked the privacy guide: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4468233/cortana-and-privacy-microsoft-privacy https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4468233/cortana-and... I quote: "Cortana does not use the data you share to target ads to you. Ads may accompany search results that Cortana delivers, just as they do when you search on Bing.com. Even if Cortana does the searching for you, your web search queries will be treated as described in the Bing section of the Microsoft Privacy Statement." Using Cortana doesn't give Microsoft any more ad money over someone just doing a plain Bing search.
- neilpanchal 7y ago
  Do you mind if I paraphrase your comment and add it to the article? Thanks for checking the privacy guide, it establishes what Microsoft officially has to say about their data collection methods. And, I should have checked it before writing the article. I am cynical of any company that is trying to impede user's ability to turn privacy related settings off. They go out of their way to make it difficult. There are no more than 2 dozen privacy related switches in Control Panel. Everything is checked on by default. This whole thing reeks of insiduous tracking, spying and surveillance, despite of what the privacy guide says. I am very, very cynical. Also, there is no assurance that government agencies have access to a wealth of information that's collected as part of "user experience improvement". Furthermore, all this data collection, even if it is not used for advertisement currently has potential to be used in the future for ad tracking. Microsoft has full control over changing their privacy policy next day. I lost the count of emails that I get every other day that eBay, or YouTube or Twitter has changed their privacy policy. Assuming benevolent actions from the company collecting data, whether it is for "telemetry" purposes or for ad tracking, has the risk of being hacked. I presume Microsoft has taken enough steps to anonymize personally identifiable information or as they call it PII in the circles. The plug needs to be pulled from the point of origin of the data, if it is not collected, it is not going to be misused. Questions that I would like to ask Microsoft: - Why make it difficult for user to opt-out of privacy related settings? - Why employ dark patterns to trick users into submitting their data? - Why push Cortana across the board from "Home" to "Enterprise" editions, where no one has asked for it, no one uses it and it is impossible to get rid of? - Why not make it an opt-in process as opposed to opting out?

commandersaki 7y ago

> The only valid part if the article is that it's hard to believe that anyone really wants a voice assistant. I think voice assistance shines on mobile devices because of clumsy UI. Here's an elaborate example: When I finish a dentist appointment I negotiate a follow up with the receptionist after paying my bill. I can then dictate to siri to schedule the next appointment rather than clumsily typing it all in. A more obvious example: hands-free operation when operating a vehicle, e.g. "Siri read me the last message I received (from Alice)". Unless you're completely inept with your computer there's really no reason to use the voice interface. I think we already learned this lesson otherwise Dragon Dictate would've taken off decades ago.

muststopmyths 7y ago
>Unless you're completely inept with your computer there's really no reason to use the voice interface. I think we already learned this lesson otherwise Dragon Dictate would've taken off decades ago. I must be completely inept because I find saying "Hey Cortana, remind me to abc at xyz" right when something occurs to me a lot more convenient than opening my web-based calender and going through the rigmarole of setting up a reminder.
- a_t48 7y ago
  I'm with you there.
  - commandersaki 7y ago
    You fellas can be the exception in that you're not inept but you found a use where nobody else really has (or discovered).
9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago
Unless you're completely inept with computer it's always faster to do the tasks with hands.