6 ms·

4 on your list are Hungarian, and 3 of them went to the same high school: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasori_Gimn%C3%A1zium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fas

by 0-_-0 7y ago

4 on your list are Hungarian, and 3 of them went to the same high school: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasori_Gimn%C3%A1zium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasori_Gimn%C3%A1zium Hungary had a great education system at the time.

qnsi 7y ago
Or great genes
- jjgreen 7y ago
  Or there's some kind of magical properties of paprika that the rest of the world hasn't yet noticed ...
chx 7y ago
> Hungary had a great education system at the time. I seriously doubt you could back this. You are generalizing from a single school. Might as well argue that socialist Hungary had a great education system because of Fazekas. Neither are true. I happen to have a maths teacher degree from a Hungarian university and we studied Hungarian education history and I learned much more about education systems later on my own (and this is not to say this university maths teacher course was a good one, quite the opposite). If you want to know what great education at the time looked like, read up on Summerhill -- it was founded in 1921 but humanistic education has been around for centuries.
- nabla9 7y ago
  Mathematics culture and mathematical pedagogy in Hungary has legendary reputation. I don't know how their system works now,but at least up to 80s or 90s it was seen as being the highest level. It emphasized creativity, communication and problem solving. https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-28582-5_5 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-28582-5_...
  - chx 7y ago
    > but at least up to 80s or 90s it was seen as being the highest level. It emphasized creativity, communication and problem solving. What utter baloney! There were a few, very few special math classes that went against the system which delivered results. I went to one, I should know...
- 0-_-0 7y ago
  While having a much smaller population (10M), Hungary places 4th in worldwide medal rankings on the International Mathematics Olympiad [1] behind China (1.5B), USA (300M) and Russia (150M) [1]: https://www.imo-official.org/results_country.aspx?column=awards&order=desc https://www.imo-official.org/results_country.aspx?column=awa...
  - SamReidHughes 7y ago
    Well, that's historical. In 2019 it was 1. China 1. USA 3. S. Korea (51M) 4. N. Korea (25M). And Hungary lost to Serbia (7M). https://www.imo-official.org/year_country_r.aspx?year=2019&column=total&order=desc https://www.imo-official.org/year_country_r.aspx?year=2019&c...
  - chx 7y ago
    There were a few, very few special math classes that went against the system which delivered results. I went to one, I should know...
    - iguy 7y ago
      If we're talking about von Neumann, or even just the math olympiad, then clearly we're not talking about how well the education system serves the 50th percentile. It's possible for a system to be awful for most, and somehow find and train the top few percent brilliantly.
- b0rsuk 7y ago
  Pre-WW2 Poland also had a great math achievements. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lw%C3%B3w_School_of_Mathematics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lw%C3%B3w_School_of_Mathematic... The city Lwów, or Lviv as Ukrainians now call it, had a great school and the city changed hands during war. Also, Polish mathematicians from other universities played an important part in breaking the Enigma. They developed the Bombe, the cryptographic machine later sent to UK, which was then refined and used to break it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombe More generally, I suspect it was something about the era and its culture that valued intellect and sciences. These days people like that are often put down as nerds. Leaders and extraverts are praised and set as examples. Celebrities are also a modern invention, I see them as something quite distinct from "stars". The only requirement to be a celebrity is to be popular. Also, these days people would rather worship CEOs.
tiborsaas 7y ago
Sadly, not anymore. The government is doing everything to dumb down education and research in academia. It's really pathetic. We are doomed for generations thanks to this. Just a recent example: a Prezi.com founder decided to create an alternative private school to show and lead by example. They didn't get the accreditation this year. If you stick out, they shut you down.
- madhadron 7y ago
  It hasn't had that education system since World War II.
bobcostas55 7y ago
SSC had a great post on that: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/26/the-atomic-bomb-considered-as-hungarian-high-school-science-fair-project/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/26/the-atomic-bomb-consid...
- idoh 7y ago
  I read that post, "great" is an understatement. Thanks for sharing!
hyperpallium 7y ago
What made the school great? Was it brilliant teachers, or some replicable system? I have a theory that maths being taught as a skill, instead of an intuitive system, derivable from axioms as with Euclid may a cause.
- 0-_-0 7y ago
  László Rátz taught math to both Neumann and Wigner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_R%C3%A1tz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_R%C3%A1tz
mcv 7y ago
Both quality education and an appreciation for science and intellectual achievements in general, could easily be a big factor. These days, scientists, journalists and other truth-seeking professions are often criticised and discredited because the facts they find are politically inconvenient (global warming, anyone?). Education is often seen primarily as an expense, rather than an investment. People admire pop stars more than scientists. Truth is apparently whatever you strongly believe it to be, these days. It doesn't surprise me at all that the current political climate is not great for fostering great minds.

by 0-_-0 7y ago

qnsi 7y ago

Or great genes

jjgreen 7y ago
Or there's some kind of magical properties of paprika that the rest of the world hasn't yet noticed ...

chx 7y ago

> Hungary had a great education system at the time. I seriously doubt you could back this. You are generalizing from a single school. Might as well argue that socialist Hungary had a great education system because of Fazekas. Neither are true. I happen to have a maths teacher degree from a Hungarian university and we studied Hungarian education history and I learned much more about education systems later on my own (and this is not to say this university maths teacher course was a good one, quite the opposite). If you want to know what great education at the time looked like, read up on Summerhill -- it was founded in 1921 but humanistic education has been around for centuries.

nabla9 7y ago
Mathematics culture and mathematical pedagogy in Hungary has legendary reputation. I don't know how their system works now,but at least up to 80s or 90s it was seen as being the highest level. It emphasized creativity, communication and problem solving. https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-28582-5_5 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-28582-5_...
- chx 7y ago
  > but at least up to 80s or 90s it was seen as being the highest level. It emphasized creativity, communication and problem solving. What utter baloney! There were a few, very few special math classes that went against the system which delivered results. I went to one, I should know...
0-_-0 7y ago
While having a much smaller population (10M), Hungary places 4th in worldwide medal rankings on the International Mathematics Olympiad [1] behind China (1.5B), USA (300M) and Russia (150M) [1]: https://www.imo-official.org/results_country.aspx?column=awards&order=desc https://www.imo-official.org/results_country.aspx?column=awa...
- SamReidHughes 7y ago
  Well, that's historical. In 2019 it was 1. China 1. USA 3. S. Korea (51M) 4. N. Korea (25M). And Hungary lost to Serbia (7M). https://www.imo-official.org/year_country_r.aspx?year=2019&column=total&order=desc https://www.imo-official.org/year_country_r.aspx?year=2019&c...
- chx 7y ago
  There were a few, very few special math classes that went against the system which delivered results. I went to one, I should know...
  - iguy 7y ago
    If we're talking about von Neumann, or even just the math olympiad, then clearly we're not talking about how well the education system serves the 50th percentile. It's possible for a system to be awful for most, and somehow find and train the top few percent brilliantly.
b0rsuk 7y ago
Pre-WW2 Poland also had a great math achievements. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lw%C3%B3w_School_of_Mathematics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lw%C3%B3w_School_of_Mathematic... The city Lwów, or Lviv as Ukrainians now call it, had a great school and the city changed hands during war. Also, Polish mathematicians from other universities played an important part in breaking the Enigma. They developed the Bombe, the cryptographic machine later sent to UK, which was then refined and used to break it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombe More generally, I suspect it was something about the era and its culture that valued intellect and sciences. These days people like that are often put down as nerds. Leaders and extraverts are praised and set as examples. Celebrities are also a modern invention, I see them as something quite distinct from "stars". The only requirement to be a celebrity is to be popular. Also, these days people would rather worship CEOs.

tiborsaas 7y ago

Sadly, not anymore. The government is doing everything to dumb down education and research in academia. It's really pathetic. We are doomed for generations thanks to this. Just a recent example: a Prezi.com founder decided to create an alternative private school to show and lead by example. They didn't get the accreditation this year. If you stick out, they shut you down.

madhadron 7y ago
It hasn't had that education system since World War II.

bobcostas55 7y ago

SSC had a great post on that: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/26/the-atomic-bomb-considered-as-hungarian-high-school-science-fair-project/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/26/the-atomic-bomb-consid...

idoh 7y ago
I read that post, "great" is an understatement. Thanks for sharing!

hyperpallium 7y ago

What made the school great? Was it brilliant teachers, or some replicable system? I have a theory that maths being taught as a skill, instead of an intuitive system, derivable from axioms as with Euclid may a cause.

0-_-0 7y ago
László Rátz taught math to both Neumann and Wigner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_R%C3%A1tz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_R%C3%A1tz

mcv 7y ago

Both quality education and an appreciation for science and intellectual achievements in general, could easily be a big factor. These days, scientists, journalists and other truth-seeking professions are often criticised and discredited because the facts they find are politically inconvenient (global warming, anyone?). Education is often seen primarily as an expense, rather than an investment. People admire pop stars more than scientists. Truth is apparently whatever you strongly believe it to be, these days. It doesn't surprise me at all that the current political climate is not great for fostering great minds.