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10 minutes is nothing. A wire transfer can take hours. A bank transfer can take days. A wire transfer might cost you 20 bucks as well. Bitcoin is amazing at tra

10 minutes is nothing. A wire transfer can take hours. A bank transfer can take days. A wire transfer might cost you 20 bucks as well. Bitcoin is amazing at transferring large sums of money quickly, internationally, for a low overhead cost. It's extremely useful for a lot of people.

oneplane 7y ago
Where in the world would a wire transfer cost 20 bucks? It's practically free here unless you do something that makes the bank do extra work.
- xfer 7y ago
  International transfers?
  - oneplane 7y ago
    Even those are like 9 euros if you send over 1k.
- Ut_Pwnsim 7y ago
  USA: https://www.wellsfargo.com/online-banking/service-fees https://www.wellsfargo.com/online-banking/service-fees $30 to send a wire transfer, just within the country. And $15 to receive one too.
  - oneplane 7y ago
    Why the heck do people use those kinds banks over there? Seems to me it takes away all the usefulness of one. It's a money bucket where you put money in and take money out. As soon as one of those three aspects is not there, then what is the point?
    - Ut_Pwnsim 7y ago
      https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/banking/wire-transfers-what-banks-charge/ https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/banking/wire-transfers-what-... There really isn't any low cost option for wire transfers in the US. ACH is the free transfer option, and it takes 1-3 days. Wire transfers are the "pay a lot for immediate confirmation" option just for the very few transfers it's worth it on. The average person is unlikely to ever make or receive a wire transfer. There are consumer-level alternatives for personal transfers like Venmo: https://venmo.com/about/product/ https://venmo.com/about/product/
      - oneplane 7y ago
        But why wouldn't you want to send or receive money using your bank? Isn't that what it is for? As a non-US person this seems really strange to me (but so is the concept of cheques and tip-based income). I'm used to using the bank, the apps they have and de debit cards they provide (and now also Apple Pay) to send and receive money instantly every day, and there are on average ~10 instant transfers daily to both other private accounts or businesses to pay for things. Perhaps this is an exotic or luxury position, or there is some unseen cost to this, but I'm not aware of that at this point.
codexon 7y ago
A lot of merchants ask for 3+ confirmations, and sometimes 1 confirmation can even take 20 minutes. Paypal and credit cards take seconds. And $20 for a wire transfer pales in comparison to the fees people charge for converting bitcoin to cash https://localbitcoins.com/ https://localbitcoins.com/ Yes transferring large sums of money internationally is useful, but it is a niche, and bitcoin doesn't even do it that cheaply.
- Geee 7y ago
  Bitcoin transactions are instant. You get the 0-conf transaction instantly and are able to buy stuff. The 30 minutes for 3 confirmations are basically the 'chargeback' time, which is about 2 weeks with credit cards. In day-to-day business, people usually trust 0-conf transactions, or are able to handle the chargeback.
  - dorgo 7y ago
    How does a 0-conf transaction work? I mean, without confirmations the transaction is not on the blockchain. It basically doesn't exist. Is it just a promise that I will pay a bitcoin in the future?
    - maxhille 7y ago
      The seller now has the buyer-signed transaction as it will (hopefully) be recorded on the blockchain. Common wallets will also already deduct the paid amount.
    - Geee 7y ago
      It means that it has been sent to the Bitcoin network to be mined in the next block.
      - fauigerzigerk 7y ago
        Could the sender simply cancel it?

oneplane 7y ago

Where in the world would a wire transfer cost 20 bucks? It's practically free here unless you do something that makes the bank do extra work.

xfer 7y ago
International transfers?
- oneplane 7y ago
  Even those are like 9 euros if you send over 1k.
Ut_Pwnsim 7y ago
USA: https://www.wellsfargo.com/online-banking/service-fees https://www.wellsfargo.com/online-banking/service-fees $30 to send a wire transfer, just within the country. And $15 to receive one too.
- oneplane 7y ago
  Why the heck do people use those kinds banks over there? Seems to me it takes away all the usefulness of one. It's a money bucket where you put money in and take money out. As soon as one of those three aspects is not there, then what is the point?
  - Ut_Pwnsim 7y ago
    https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/banking/wire-transfers-what-banks-charge/ https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/banking/wire-transfers-what-... There really isn't any low cost option for wire transfers in the US. ACH is the free transfer option, and it takes 1-3 days. Wire transfers are the "pay a lot for immediate confirmation" option just for the very few transfers it's worth it on. The average person is unlikely to ever make or receive a wire transfer. There are consumer-level alternatives for personal transfers like Venmo: https://venmo.com/about/product/ https://venmo.com/about/product/
    - oneplane 7y ago
      But why wouldn't you want to send or receive money using your bank? Isn't that what it is for? As a non-US person this seems really strange to me (but so is the concept of cheques and tip-based income). I'm used to using the bank, the apps they have and de debit cards they provide (and now also Apple Pay) to send and receive money instantly every day, and there are on average ~10 instant transfers daily to both other private accounts or businesses to pay for things. Perhaps this is an exotic or luxury position, or there is some unseen cost to this, but I'm not aware of that at this point.

codexon 7y ago

A lot of merchants ask for 3+ confirmations, and sometimes 1 confirmation can even take 20 minutes. Paypal and credit cards take seconds. And $20 for a wire transfer pales in comparison to the fees people charge for converting bitcoin to cash https://localbitcoins.com/ https://localbitcoins.com/ Yes transferring large sums of money internationally is useful, but it is a niche, and bitcoin doesn't even do it that cheaply.

Geee 7y ago
Bitcoin transactions are instant. You get the 0-conf transaction instantly and are able to buy stuff. The 30 minutes for 3 confirmations are basically the 'chargeback' time, which is about 2 weeks with credit cards. In day-to-day business, people usually trust 0-conf transactions, or are able to handle the chargeback.
- dorgo 7y ago
  How does a 0-conf transaction work? I mean, without confirmations the transaction is not on the blockchain. It basically doesn't exist. Is it just a promise that I will pay a bitcoin in the future?
  - maxhille 7y ago
    The seller now has the buyer-signed transaction as it will (hopefully) be recorded on the blockchain. Common wallets will also already deduct the paid amount.
  - Geee 7y ago
    It means that it has been sent to the Bitcoin network to be mined in the next block.
    - fauigerzigerk 7y ago
      Could the sender simply cancel it?