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I'm not claiming they require "clean experimental results" for the field to have validity. I think sociology is a very valid and valuable field that doesn't ha

I'm not claiming they require "clean experimental results" for the field to have validity. I think sociology is a very valid and valuable field that doesn't have such a thing. My problem is the misrepresentation of a sociology-like field as experimental physics, or worse, a study of morality. Both are exceptionally common in economics, and I've had several teachers and professors present it that way. It's the orthodoxy surrounding a very specific, Reagan-era capitalist interpretation of the function and behaviour of a society taught as a universal law.

hogFeast 7y ago
It isn't like sociology...you either haven't studied economics or sociology. And I would agree generally but I think your reasoning is wrong. Economics of itself dictates no outcome. This is an argument that sociologists often make (i.e. the person uses the tool but the tool also uses the person) but, ironically, this is an example of trying to universalise a principle of sociology to an area where it doesn't really apply. Why? Because if you want to value any end...just build a model that does so. And btw, arguments generally about the function of a society are politics. You will find this kind of thing taught in politics, not economics. Economists can have a view on them but you have to use politics to demonstrate that any goal of society is better than any other...which is inherently subjective anyway. Ironically, the main people who complain about economics having an orthodoxy about the function of society generally have fairly rigid ideas on this topic already.
- nlfwhulsdhouv 7y ago
  > It isn't like sociology...you either haven't studied economics or sociology. I love this dig specifically because you missed my point. I was simply addressing the fact that I don't think a field needs to have experimentation to have value. > And btw, arguments generally about the function of a society are politics. No shit. > Because if you want to value any end...just build a model that does so. > Economists can have a view on them but you have to use politics to demonstrate that any goal of society is better than any other. That's exactly my point. Economists conflate their model of Western Capitalism (for better or worse) with a moral position or _necessary_ condition for society. I know their are economists that don't do this, but none I've met or been taught by.
QuesnayJr 7y ago
Study of morality? You have weird economics professors.
- Gibbon1 7y ago
  I read an abstract of a sociology paper. The authors tested economics students as beginning freshmen and then four years later. The test measured sociopathy. You can guess.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    My first guess is they found an increase. A close second guess is they didn’t have appropriate controls in the study to draw a valid conclusion.

hogFeast 7y ago

It isn't like sociology...you either haven't studied economics or sociology. And I would agree generally but I think your reasoning is wrong. Economics of itself dictates no outcome. This is an argument that sociologists often make (i.e. the person uses the tool but the tool also uses the person) but, ironically, this is an example of trying to universalise a principle of sociology to an area where it doesn't really apply. Why? Because if you want to value any end...just build a model that does so. And btw, arguments generally about the function of a society are politics. You will find this kind of thing taught in politics, not economics. Economists can have a view on them but you have to use politics to demonstrate that any goal of society is better than any other...which is inherently subjective anyway. Ironically, the main people who complain about economics having an orthodoxy about the function of society generally have fairly rigid ideas on this topic already.

nlfwhulsdhouv 7y ago
> It isn't like sociology...you either haven't studied economics or sociology. I love this dig specifically because you missed my point. I was simply addressing the fact that I don't think a field needs to have experimentation to have value. > And btw, arguments generally about the function of a society are politics. No shit. > Because if you want to value any end...just build a model that does so. > Economists can have a view on them but you have to use politics to demonstrate that any goal of society is better than any other. That's exactly my point. Economists conflate their model of Western Capitalism (for better or worse) with a moral position or _necessary_ condition for society. I know their are economists that don't do this, but none I've met or been taught by.

QuesnayJr 7y ago

Study of morality? You have weird economics professors.

Gibbon1 7y ago
I read an abstract of a sociology paper. The authors tested economics students as beginning freshmen and then four years later. The test measured sociopathy. You can guess.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  My first guess is they found an increase. A close second guess is they didn’t have appropriate controls in the study to draw a valid conclusion.