3 ms·

Germany vs France Full research http://www.oecd-nea.org/ndd/pubs/2019/7299-system-costs.pdf http://www.oecd-nea.org/ndd/pubs/2019/7299-system-costs.pdf Short

by 9dl 7y ago

Germany vs France Full research http://www.oecd-nea.org/ndd/pubs/2019/7299-system-costs.pdf http://www.oecd-nea.org/ndd/pubs/2019/7299-system-costs.pdf Short https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/02/05/if-saving-the-climate-requires-making-energy-so-expensive-why-is-french-electricity-so-cheap/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/02/05... Nuclear safer, cheaper (in short and long term) and produce less carbon emission

NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Michael Shellenberger, founder of pro-nuclear lobbying outfit Environmental Progress. He is so pro nuclear and anti renewables that he simply makes stuff up in order to show $50 is less than $5. Oh look, he's branded the graphs with his lobbying outfit logo. Why is he not comparing with other countries that are getting it right? Ah because the conclusion was determined before he wrote a single word. He was drastically wrong on the Amazon recently too: https://news.mongabay.com/2019/08/michael-shellenbergers-sloppy-forbes-diatribe-on-amazon-fires-commentary/ https://news.mongabay.com/2019/08/michael-shellenbergers-slo...
- sien 7y ago
  Which countries are getting renewables right and have lower power costs than, say, France with similarly low electricity prices? Also that don't rely on hydropower. That's something limited by geography. Also, the paper was from the OECD NEA, nothing to do with Shellenberger.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    The Forbes link is Shellenberger, it's even in the URL. I'm not going to plough through a 224 page joint Nuclear Energy Agency / OECD study, with 8 page densely packed conclusion. I don't trust Shellenberger to distil anything honestly - he has way too much form.
    - sien 7y ago
      Seriously, what is the country or countries that are doing renewables well and cheaply?
      - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
        Without any awareness of relative pricing I'd have liked to see comparisons with nations who haven't had the well reported issues Germany has had, with negative prices and what seems a huge proportion of solar given their latitude - along with recent increases of using lignite. The "obvious" choices would seem to be Sweden, Iceland, Morocco, Denmark and UK. Perhaps China, or even Costa Rica who seem to have the world's most ambitious target - carbon free by 2021. I'm sure there's others progressing quickly.
- 9dl 7y ago
  It is ok with disclosing conflict of interests and manipulations But you should provide some papers which support your position If we want civil discussion
ocschwar 7y ago
Worldwide, by the most respected outfit in this field: https://www.lazard.com/perspective/lcoe2019 https://www.lazard.com/perspective/lcoe2019

by 9dl 7y ago

NeedMoreTea 7y ago

Michael Shellenberger, founder of pro-nuclear lobbying outfit Environmental Progress. He is so pro nuclear and anti renewables that he simply makes stuff up in order to show $50 is less than $5. Oh look, he's branded the graphs with his lobbying outfit logo. Why is he not comparing with other countries that are getting it right? Ah because the conclusion was determined before he wrote a single word. He was drastically wrong on the Amazon recently too: https://news.mongabay.com/2019/08/michael-shellenbergers-sloppy-forbes-diatribe-on-amazon-fires-commentary/ https://news.mongabay.com/2019/08/michael-shellenbergers-slo...

sien 7y ago
Which countries are getting renewables right and have lower power costs than, say, France with similarly low electricity prices? Also that don't rely on hydropower. That's something limited by geography. Also, the paper was from the OECD NEA, nothing to do with Shellenberger.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  The Forbes link is Shellenberger, it's even in the URL. I'm not going to plough through a 224 page joint Nuclear Energy Agency / OECD study, with 8 page densely packed conclusion. I don't trust Shellenberger to distil anything honestly - he has way too much form.
  - sien 7y ago
    Seriously, what is the country or countries that are doing renewables well and cheaply?
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      Without any awareness of relative pricing I'd have liked to see comparisons with nations who haven't had the well reported issues Germany has had, with negative prices and what seems a huge proportion of solar given their latitude - along with recent increases of using lignite. The "obvious" choices would seem to be Sweden, Iceland, Morocco, Denmark and UK. Perhaps China, or even Costa Rica who seem to have the world's most ambitious target - carbon free by 2021. I'm sure there's others progressing quickly.
9dl 7y ago
It is ok with disclosing conflict of interests and manipulations But you should provide some papers which support your position If we want civil discussion

ocschwar 7y ago

Worldwide, by the most respected outfit in this field: https://www.lazard.com/perspective/lcoe2019 https://www.lazard.com/perspective/lcoe2019