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But Bitcoin won't solve deplatforming, because the existence of Bitcoin doesn't preclude a bank from deplatforming you. Until Bitcoin is ubiquitous (doubtful t

by na85 7y ago

But Bitcoin won't solve deplatforming, because the existence of Bitcoin doesn't preclude a bank from deplatforming you. Until Bitcoin is ubiquitous (doubtful this will occur in my life time) we are still vulnerable to deplatforming when we go to exchange btc for fiat.

stale2002 7y ago
My bank isn't deplatforming me, when I transfer money from coinbase, though. So this is already a solved issue. They aren't deplatforming me right now!
- 2muchcoffeeman 7y ago
  Are you a sex worker?
  - 2muchcoffeeman 7y ago
    I’m being down voted, but sex workers are some times deprived of bank services because of their jobs. Literally told to take their banking else where. How does using crypto help? Does it’s use suddenly make you immune from banks finding out your source of income? https://www.sbs.com.au/news/banks-accused-of-slut-shaming-for-refusing-financial-services-to-sex-workers https://www.sbs.com.au/news/banks-accused-of-slut-shaming-fo...
    - stale2002 7y ago
      The answer is that crypto transactions are censored much less frequently then PayPal transactions. That's why it helps. PayPal censorship is much more common than crypto censorship. > Does it’s use suddenly make you immune from banks finding out your source of income? No, it doesn't make you immune. Being 100% immune to anything at all is literally impossible. But it seems like it makes it less likely.
      - 2muchcoffeeman 7y ago
        You said that you transfer crypto to your bank and you are not deplatformed. My point is the banks don’t care about crypto. They care about your occupation. If you deposited cash, you may still have no bank account.
- lvturner 7y ago
  What if they deplatform coinbase due to AML risk... Or some other reason?
  - stale2002 7y ago
    Coinbase isn't currently being deplatformed, though. That is a hypothetical situation which seems to me like it would be pretty unlikely. Banks aren't talking about deplatforming coinbase, for whatever reason, therefore it is useful. The whole "what if the government/banks banned Bitcoin!?" Is a pretty silly hypothetical, to me, because if you look at what these groups are actually doing, you will see that they aren't doing this and aren't really trying to do so!
    - lvturner 7y ago
      I get your point that it isn't currently deemed at risk of being deplatformed - but while there are some differences, Bitfinex are having difficulties with finding people willing to bank with them. So there is precedence there.
      - stale2002 7y ago
        Sure! I agree. It might be possible that things will change in the future. And if things change, then I agree that this might cause problems. The only reason why I am sceptical, though, is because I have heard these same arguments, about how the government will ban Bitcoin, for 6-7 years. And yet it hasn't happened yet. So it is totally possible that this time is different. But I just feel like, I need to be very sceptical about these arguments, until they actually happen. Because I heard them before, and those people were proven wrong. But you are right, in that it is very possible that maybe this time is different.
- huehehue 7y ago
  Sure, but Coinbase's KYC prevents it from being a reliable long-term alternative. There's still a central authority with your identity, governing whether you can move your money.
zelly 7y ago
You can use an ATM (or localbitcoins) to cash out Bitcoin without any connection to your bank account. Bitcoin doesn't have to be ubiquitous to use it even today, you just have to find businesses that accept Bitcoin. A buddy of mine accepts rent from a tenant in Bitcoin. There are exchanges to buy gift cards or Amazon credits with Bitcoin which you can use in real life to buy food. You can realistically go about your life completely in 2019 with just magic internet money. What a time to be alive.
- spookthesunset 7y ago
  > There are exchanges to buy gift cards or Amazon credits with Bitcoin which you can use in real life to buy food. Which I’m sure are totally legit and not at all primarily used to launder money.
  - AshwinDurairaj 7y ago
    I'm sure other forms of exchange, for example, USD to GC, can still be used to launder money. This is not exclusive to cryptocurrency as you would imply.
  - chabes 7y ago
    Why so quick to assume? Maybe you’ve never heard of Fold app or Bitrefill. Some of us are actually trying to build a circular bitcoin economy. These companies not only offer onramps and offramps to the ecosystem, but they actively fund and incentivize building. Yes, they make a profit too.
  - paulddraper 7y ago
    Considering Bitcoin's chief feature is skirting legal authorities for money transfers, that wouldn't surprise me.
  - zelly 7y ago
    Feature, not a bug
- tomc1985 7y ago
  * in selected locations only
profmonocle 7y ago
Being deplatformed by a bank is less of an issue because there are thousands of banks in the US. If you just need a checking account for your adult business, you're likely to find a bank that doesn't mind. Then you're on the ACH network and should be good to go as far as bitcoin goes. The only ones who could truly deplatform you off the banking system are the government, by making it illegal / highly burdensome to service you. But the credit card industry is an oligopoly. If Visa or Mastercard don't like you, you're completely screwed as far as online payments go.
j4_hnews 7y ago
Correct. Banks in Canada are already de-platforming customers suspected of using Bitcoin: https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinCA/comments/89gsdk/td_canada_trust_account_closed_for_buying_coins/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinCA/comments/89gsdk/td_canada... https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinCA/comments/9ckikr/rbc_froze_my_bank_account_for_buying_crypto/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinCA/comments/9ckikr/rbc_froze... https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/bmo-blocks-cryptocurrency-purchases-on-its-credit-debit-cards-1.1028181 https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/bmo-blocks-cryptocurrency-purcha...
- throwaway857384 7y ago
  That stuff is all old, banks aren't giving people trouble these days. Canada is likely to have a BTC ETF in January, so you could say Canada is pretty open to BTC at this point (it is treated like any other exchangeable currency).

by na85 7y ago

stale2002 7y ago

My bank isn't deplatforming me, when I transfer money from coinbase, though. So this is already a solved issue. They aren't deplatforming me right now!

2muchcoffeeman 7y ago
Are you a sex worker?
- 2muchcoffeeman 7y ago
  I’m being down voted, but sex workers are some times deprived of bank services because of their jobs. Literally told to take their banking else where. How does using crypto help? Does it’s use suddenly make you immune from banks finding out your source of income? https://www.sbs.com.au/news/banks-accused-of-slut-shaming-for-refusing-financial-services-to-sex-workers https://www.sbs.com.au/news/banks-accused-of-slut-shaming-fo...
  - stale2002 7y ago
    The answer is that crypto transactions are censored much less frequently then PayPal transactions. That's why it helps. PayPal censorship is much more common than crypto censorship. > Does it’s use suddenly make you immune from banks finding out your source of income? No, it doesn't make you immune. Being 100% immune to anything at all is literally impossible. But it seems like it makes it less likely.
    - 2muchcoffeeman 7y ago
      You said that you transfer crypto to your bank and you are not deplatformed. My point is the banks don’t care about crypto. They care about your occupation. If you deposited cash, you may still have no bank account.
lvturner 7y ago
What if they deplatform coinbase due to AML risk... Or some other reason?
- stale2002 7y ago
  Coinbase isn't currently being deplatformed, though. That is a hypothetical situation which seems to me like it would be pretty unlikely. Banks aren't talking about deplatforming coinbase, for whatever reason, therefore it is useful. The whole "what if the government/banks banned Bitcoin!?" Is a pretty silly hypothetical, to me, because if you look at what these groups are actually doing, you will see that they aren't doing this and aren't really trying to do so!
  - lvturner 7y ago
    I get your point that it isn't currently deemed at risk of being deplatformed - but while there are some differences, Bitfinex are having difficulties with finding people willing to bank with them. So there is precedence there.
    - stale2002 7y ago
      Sure! I agree. It might be possible that things will change in the future. And if things change, then I agree that this might cause problems. The only reason why I am sceptical, though, is because I have heard these same arguments, about how the government will ban Bitcoin, for 6-7 years. And yet it hasn't happened yet. So it is totally possible that this time is different. But I just feel like, I need to be very sceptical about these arguments, until they actually happen. Because I heard them before, and those people were proven wrong. But you are right, in that it is very possible that maybe this time is different.
huehehue 7y ago
Sure, but Coinbase's KYC prevents it from being a reliable long-term alternative. There's still a central authority with your identity, governing whether you can move your money.

zelly 7y ago

You can use an ATM (or localbitcoins) to cash out Bitcoin without any connection to your bank account. Bitcoin doesn't have to be ubiquitous to use it even today, you just have to find businesses that accept Bitcoin. A buddy of mine accepts rent from a tenant in Bitcoin. There are exchanges to buy gift cards or Amazon credits with Bitcoin which you can use in real life to buy food. You can realistically go about your life completely in 2019 with just magic internet money. What a time to be alive.

spookthesunset 7y ago
> There are exchanges to buy gift cards or Amazon credits with Bitcoin which you can use in real life to buy food. Which I’m sure are totally legit and not at all primarily used to launder money.
- AshwinDurairaj 7y ago
  I'm sure other forms of exchange, for example, USD to GC, can still be used to launder money. This is not exclusive to cryptocurrency as you would imply.
- chabes 7y ago
  Why so quick to assume? Maybe you’ve never heard of Fold app or Bitrefill. Some of us are actually trying to build a circular bitcoin economy. These companies not only offer onramps and offramps to the ecosystem, but they actively fund and incentivize building. Yes, they make a profit too.
- paulddraper 7y ago
  Considering Bitcoin's chief feature is skirting legal authorities for money transfers, that wouldn't surprise me.
- zelly 7y ago
  Feature, not a bug
tomc1985 7y ago
* in selected locations only

profmonocle 7y ago

Being deplatformed by a bank is less of an issue because there are thousands of banks in the US. If you just need a checking account for your adult business, you're likely to find a bank that doesn't mind. Then you're on the ACH network and should be good to go as far as bitcoin goes. The only ones who could truly deplatform you off the banking system are the government, by making it illegal / highly burdensome to service you. But the credit card industry is an oligopoly. If Visa or Mastercard don't like you, you're completely screwed as far as online payments go.

j4_hnews 7y ago

Correct. Banks in Canada are already de-platforming customers suspected of using Bitcoin: https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinCA/comments/89gsdk/td_canada_trust_account_closed_for_buying_coins/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinCA/comments/89gsdk/td_canada... https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinCA/comments/9ckikr/rbc_froze_my_bank_account_for_buying_crypto/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinCA/comments/9ckikr/rbc_froze... https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/bmo-blocks-cryptocurrency-purchases-on-its-credit-debit-cards-1.1028181 https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/bmo-blocks-cryptocurrency-purcha...

throwaway857384 7y ago
That stuff is all old, banks aren't giving people trouble these days. Canada is likely to have a BTC ETF in January, so you could say Canada is pretty open to BTC at this point (it is treated like any other exchangeable currency).