4 ms·

Of course you couldn't legally set that up, are you insane? On what planet would that be justifiable? Even in Texas, you need to demonstrate a reasonable beli

Of course you couldn't legally set that up, are you insane? On what planet would that be justifiable? Even in Texas, you need to demonstrate a reasonable belief that you were in imminent danger of being robbed or attacked before you are permitted to use deadly force on an intruder in your home.

Jach 16y ago
Planet Earth. While not exactly the same thing, there were automatic machine guns on the Berlin Wall. I'm not trying to justify it though, just wondering if the police or FBI ever take it into consideration before they go around busting doors before knocking. (Other possibilities include rigging a Microwave without a front door to turn on and temporarily/permanently blind whoever comes through.)
burgerbrain 16y ago
Somebody bursting down your door in the middle of the night isn't "reasonable belief that you were in imminent danger of being robbed or attacked"? What world do you live in? Ignore the silly mechanism described, and imagine you're sleeping in bed with your wife at 3am, and are a completely law abiding citizen as far as you are concerned. Why would you possibly have any reason to believe that the people violently breaking down your door and and yelling have good intentions? This isn't hypothetical, this kind of shit has actually happened. Both innocent people, and cops, have died in these sort of situations.
- pyre 16y ago
  You're supposed to trust them because they yell "police" or "fbi" as they burst in. Sure an intruder could yell the same thing, but it's the same idea as their badges. Easily faked, but they just have harsh penalties for impersonating law enforcement.
  - burgerbrain 16y ago
    It's 3am and you're sleeping. I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't notice first what they were yelling, but rather that there are a lot of flash-lights and load yelling where my locked front door used to be. You could also argue that you're supposed to trust them because they have badges, but the fact of the matter is that expecting you to be reasonably aware of that is, well, unreasonable. Go read the accounts of people who encountered this sort of situation and were lucky enough to not get killed in the process, whether they fought back or not (just jumping out of bed or daring to act surprised can get you shot here).
    - pyre 16y ago
      I wasn't claiming that it was reasonable. I was claiming what I think the 'prevailing logic' of the situation is. I also was only using the badge example to illustrate a similar situation with law enforcement where they just use stiff penalties to try and prevent what can easily be abused.
- wmf 16y ago
  No-knock warrants (often to the wrong address) are now so common that if I heard my door being broken down I would assume it's the police. The castle doctrine seems like a dead letter at this point. A sad commentary on something, but I'm not sure exactly what.
- mquander 16y ago
  The grandparent post wasn't asking what would happen if you woke up at 3 AM and shot a policeman mistakenly. He was asking whether it would be legal to rig a booby trap to do it! Those are extremely different situations, to say the least! You're arguing with a straw man.
  - burgerbrain 16y ago
    As I interpreted it, the grandparent post foolishly tried to express his more general question by coming up with a silly hypothetical^ device. The purpose of the device was to injure a police officer as a result of the home-owner not being aware of what was going on. I've taken the hypothetical device out of the question by pointing out that there are real-life situations where no-knock raids have causes unnecessary loss of life. I'm not arguing with a strawman, but rather restating the grandparents original point/question in a less absurd and tangential fashion. ^I sure as hell hope it was hypothetical anyway...
    - Jach 16y ago
      Yes, my hypothetical wasn't taken so well. I may set up a simple audio alarm with an analog circuit if I ever feel like it, but of course a rigged gun is stupid. (I'd end up making it disabled via remote control too but then I'd worry about it not actually being disabled as I'm opening the door, even if it makes a disabled noise...) I should have stuck with the Microwave example below, that's cooler anyway.

Jach 16y ago

Planet Earth. While not exactly the same thing, there were automatic machine guns on the Berlin Wall. I'm not trying to justify it though, just wondering if the police or FBI ever take it into consideration before they go around busting doors before knocking. (Other possibilities include rigging a Microwave without a front door to turn on and temporarily/permanently blind whoever comes through.)

burgerbrain 16y ago

Somebody bursting down your door in the middle of the night isn't "reasonable belief that you were in imminent danger of being robbed or attacked"? What world do you live in? Ignore the silly mechanism described, and imagine you're sleeping in bed with your wife at 3am, and are a completely law abiding citizen as far as you are concerned. Why would you possibly have any reason to believe that the people violently breaking down your door and and yelling have good intentions? This isn't hypothetical, this kind of shit has actually happened. Both innocent people, and cops, have died in these sort of situations.

pyre 16y ago
You're supposed to trust them because they yell "police" or "fbi" as they burst in. Sure an intruder could yell the same thing, but it's the same idea as their badges. Easily faked, but they just have harsh penalties for impersonating law enforcement.
- burgerbrain 16y ago
  It's 3am and you're sleeping. I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't notice first what they were yelling, but rather that there are a lot of flash-lights and load yelling where my locked front door used to be. You could also argue that you're supposed to trust them because they have badges, but the fact of the matter is that expecting you to be reasonably aware of that is, well, unreasonable. Go read the accounts of people who encountered this sort of situation and were lucky enough to not get killed in the process, whether they fought back or not (just jumping out of bed or daring to act surprised can get you shot here).
  - pyre 16y ago
    I wasn't claiming that it was reasonable. I was claiming what I think the 'prevailing logic' of the situation is. I also was only using the badge example to illustrate a similar situation with law enforcement where they just use stiff penalties to try and prevent what can easily be abused.
wmf 16y ago
No-knock warrants (often to the wrong address) are now so common that if I heard my door being broken down I would assume it's the police. The castle doctrine seems like a dead letter at this point. A sad commentary on something, but I'm not sure exactly what.
mquander 16y ago
The grandparent post wasn't asking what would happen if you woke up at 3 AM and shot a policeman mistakenly. He was asking whether it would be legal to rig a booby trap to do it! Those are extremely different situations, to say the least! You're arguing with a straw man.
- burgerbrain 16y ago
  As I interpreted it, the grandparent post foolishly tried to express his more general question by coming up with a silly hypothetical^ device. The purpose of the device was to injure a police officer as a result of the home-owner not being aware of what was going on. I've taken the hypothetical device out of the question by pointing out that there are real-life situations where no-knock raids have causes unnecessary loss of life. I'm not arguing with a strawman, but rather restating the grandparents original point/question in a less absurd and tangential fashion. ^I sure as hell hope it was hypothetical anyway...
  - Jach 16y ago
    Yes, my hypothetical wasn't taken so well. I may set up a simple audio alarm with an analog circuit if I ever feel like it, but of course a rigged gun is stupid. (I'd end up making it disabled via remote control too but then I'd worry about it not actually being disabled as I'm opening the door, even if it makes a disabled noise...) I should have stuck with the Microwave example below, that's cooler anyway.