5 ms·

What's the percentage of porn-related shadiness is because our society and business culture forces that? It seems similar to drug prohibitions etc. I haven't ha

What's the percentage of porn-related shadiness is because our society and business culture forces that? It seems similar to drug prohibitions etc. I haven't had to deal with a shady drug dealer in years now that weed is legal. Maybe if vice-clauses and the like weren't so ubiquitous we'd see more upright actors in the field.

1000units 7y ago
Almost none of it. Mentally stable people do not want strangers to ejaculate into their mouth on camera for money. Those willing are easily taken advantage of. edit: Many downvotes! Let's hear the dissent. I'll faithfully engage. edit: 'dang, can we please remove flagging privileges from whoever targeted this comment? Thanks.
- yifanl 7y ago
  Define "mentally stable"? Deviance is a core part of the human identity, isn't it?
  - 1000units 7y ago
    For the purpose of this discussion let's use the clinical psychologist's definition.
- zzzcpan 7y ago
  You are making a moral judgement, it has nothing to do with mental stability.
  - 1000units 7y ago
    I'm making an objective statement about reality backed by basic, well-understood features of human psychology and personal experience with porn actresses.
    - otterley 7y ago
      The plural of anecdote is not data. Also, do you have any credentials to back up your expertise in the field of psychology?
      - 1000units 7y ago
        http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4693920 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4693920 One learns by theory and experiment. Also, I don't flash my credentials to win arguments online. Think of me as an intellectual sparring partner rather than an authority feeding you what to believe and shape the dialectic accordingly.
        viraptor 7y ago
        There's enough nuance in "mentally stable" that having some actual credentials, training, or at least pointing out relevant studies would be useful. Otherwise it does look like you're equate your moral stance with mental health diagnosis.
        1000units 7y ago
        I've not provided my moral stance. Engage with what I actually said. For example, you might claim you are personally acquainted with porn actresses who lead healthy and productive lives. Or you might cite research showing they are less likely to abuse elicit recreational drugs, pursue psychiatric intervention, have histories of traumatic abuse, or commit suicide. Or you might discuss the various motivations that might lead one into the porn industry under ideal conditions. I don't understand the preoccupation with my morals, whatever they're imagined to be.
        viraptor 7y ago
        You've not provided anything - that's the problem. You posted an assertion and not backed it with anything substantial. Try to start with that.
drdeca 7y ago
Drug prohibition is a thing about laws. It is legal (in the US) for people (of legal age) to purchase pornography* . The fact that there is a cultural disapproval of pornography is not that much like there being laws restricting it. Also, some things should be socially discouraged while being legal. If you mean this as purely a descriptive question, then I suppose that yes, if fewer contracts excluded pornographic content from some service, then (nearly tautologically) there would be more services which permit it, and this might make some able to be more trustworthy about things. However, normatively, I think the fact that pornography is viewed negatively, at least in public, is a good thing.
- errantspark 7y ago
  > I think the fact that pornography is viewed negatively, at least in public, is a good thing. I'd love to see your thoughts on this expanded. I don't have a particularly rigorously formed opinion on this, but my gut disagrees. I'd settle for some links to articles/etc. that reflect your viewpoint.
  - baumy 7y ago
    Not OP, but my gut agrees with his. Very tricky issue and I don't think anyone can say who is "right", so I fall back to one universal principle to inform my opinion here, as well as a general societal observation. The principle: moderation is almost always best. This applies to food and exercise, to work/life balance, to sex and drugs, and everything in between. Pornography consumption generally does not represent "moderation" of sex, but the extreme end of it - you crave sexual stimulation so badly that you resort to watching other people having their sexual urges fulfilled (which can then make the porn consumer less motivated to pursue healthy avenues to achieve their own sexual fulfillment, leading to a downward spiral). People will always be drawn to porn because sex is the one "addiction" that almost everyone is born with, but having a thin healthy layer of public shame helps to encourage people not to go too far down the rabbit hole. Societal observation: society seems to be becoming shallower, more transactional, particularly in the realm of dating. In my opinion, unrealistic expectations of each other in a sexual context is one of the biggest causes of this, because when those expectations go unmet people move on to the next person they find on some app, instead of investing time into building a relationship and seeing if it can work (and growing themselves as a result of that investment). I think pornography contributes to these unrealistic expectations, and thus to making society more shallow. I'm always cautious to dive into this too much in today's political climate, but I also think there are significant societal downsides to the more extreme levels of sexual liberation that are rapidly becoming normalized in American society (possibly all of western society, but I'm a bit too ignorant to speak on that). I think pornography contributes to this as well.
DoreenMichele 7y ago
Historically, you see more prostitution in uptight eras (Victorian, etc) where "good girls don't." More recently, research suggests that rates of sexual assault go down when porn is readily available. It's a controversial thing that a lot of people don't want to hear at least in part because it directly contradicts a lot of feminist narrative that rape is about power, not desire.
- mensetmanusman 7y ago
  Also, research is showing sex in general decreasing. Interesting if porn causes humans to stop reproducing just enough to go extinct.
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    With 7 billion people on the planet, I'm not losing sleep over this possibility. Especially since I am increasingly seeing stories about outright elderly women giving birth, a la a joke I read forever ago that "In the future, the pressure to produce grandkids will go way down because our grandparents will still be having babies." That future appears to have more or less arrived.

1000units 7y ago

Almost none of it. Mentally stable people do not want strangers to ejaculate into their mouth on camera for money. Those willing are easily taken advantage of. edit: Many downvotes! Let's hear the dissent. I'll faithfully engage. edit: 'dang, can we please remove flagging privileges from whoever targeted this comment? Thanks.

yifanl 7y ago
Define "mentally stable"? Deviance is a core part of the human identity, isn't it?
- 1000units 7y ago
  For the purpose of this discussion let's use the clinical psychologist's definition.
zzzcpan 7y ago
You are making a moral judgement, it has nothing to do with mental stability.
- 1000units 7y ago
  I'm making an objective statement about reality backed by basic, well-understood features of human psychology and personal experience with porn actresses.
  - otterley 7y ago
    The plural of anecdote is not data. Also, do you have any credentials to back up your expertise in the field of psychology?
    - 1000units 7y ago
      http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4693920 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4693920 One learns by theory and experiment. Also, I don't flash my credentials to win arguments online. Think of me as an intellectual sparring partner rather than an authority feeding you what to believe and shape the dialectic accordingly.
      - viraptor 7y ago
        There's enough nuance in "mentally stable" that having some actual credentials, training, or at least pointing out relevant studies would be useful. Otherwise it does look like you're equate your moral stance with mental health diagnosis.
        1000units 7y ago
        I've not provided my moral stance. Engage with what I actually said. For example, you might claim you are personally acquainted with porn actresses who lead healthy and productive lives. Or you might cite research showing they are less likely to abuse elicit recreational drugs, pursue psychiatric intervention, have histories of traumatic abuse, or commit suicide. Or you might discuss the various motivations that might lead one into the porn industry under ideal conditions. I don't understand the preoccupation with my morals, whatever they're imagined to be.
        viraptor 7y ago
        You've not provided anything - that's the problem. You posted an assertion and not backed it with anything substantial. Try to start with that.

drdeca 7y ago

Drug prohibition is a thing about laws. It is legal (in the US) for people (of legal age) to purchase pornography* . The fact that there is a cultural disapproval of pornography is not that much like there being laws restricting it. Also, some things should be socially discouraged while being legal. If you mean this as purely a descriptive question, then I suppose that yes, if fewer contracts excluded pornographic content from some service, then (nearly tautologically) there would be more services which permit it, and this might make some able to be more trustworthy about things. However, normatively, I think the fact that pornography is viewed negatively, at least in public, is a good thing.

errantspark 7y ago
> I think the fact that pornography is viewed negatively, at least in public, is a good thing. I'd love to see your thoughts on this expanded. I don't have a particularly rigorously formed opinion on this, but my gut disagrees. I'd settle for some links to articles/etc. that reflect your viewpoint.
- baumy 7y ago
  Not OP, but my gut agrees with his. Very tricky issue and I don't think anyone can say who is "right", so I fall back to one universal principle to inform my opinion here, as well as a general societal observation. The principle: moderation is almost always best. This applies to food and exercise, to work/life balance, to sex and drugs, and everything in between. Pornography consumption generally does not represent "moderation" of sex, but the extreme end of it - you crave sexual stimulation so badly that you resort to watching other people having their sexual urges fulfilled (which can then make the porn consumer less motivated to pursue healthy avenues to achieve their own sexual fulfillment, leading to a downward spiral). People will always be drawn to porn because sex is the one "addiction" that almost everyone is born with, but having a thin healthy layer of public shame helps to encourage people not to go too far down the rabbit hole. Societal observation: society seems to be becoming shallower, more transactional, particularly in the realm of dating. In my opinion, unrealistic expectations of each other in a sexual context is one of the biggest causes of this, because when those expectations go unmet people move on to the next person they find on some app, instead of investing time into building a relationship and seeing if it can work (and growing themselves as a result of that investment). I think pornography contributes to these unrealistic expectations, and thus to making society more shallow. I'm always cautious to dive into this too much in today's political climate, but I also think there are significant societal downsides to the more extreme levels of sexual liberation that are rapidly becoming normalized in American society (possibly all of western society, but I'm a bit too ignorant to speak on that). I think pornography contributes to this as well.

DoreenMichele 7y ago

Historically, you see more prostitution in uptight eras (Victorian, etc) where "good girls don't." More recently, research suggests that rates of sexual assault go down when porn is readily available. It's a controversial thing that a lot of people don't want to hear at least in part because it directly contradicts a lot of feminist narrative that rape is about power, not desire.

mensetmanusman 7y ago
Also, research is showing sex in general decreasing. Interesting if porn causes humans to stop reproducing just enough to go extinct.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  With 7 billion people on the planet, I'm not losing sleep over this possibility. Especially since I am increasingly seeing stories about outright elderly women giving birth, a la a joke I read forever ago that "In the future, the pressure to produce grandkids will go way down because our grandparents will still be having babies." That future appears to have more or less arrived.