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Cryptocoins aren't practical enough (yet?) to rely on completely for stuff like this. If the flow has any more friction than "payer enters their credit card inf

Cryptocoins aren't practical enough (yet?) to rely on completely for stuff like this. If the flow has any more friction than "payer enters their credit card info once, then agrees to send a value; payee receives it in their bank account at a set time and can immediately use it to buy groceries", it's going to seriously affect some people's incomes. I'm not downvoting you for that, FYI, but I am downvoting you for the smug edit.

rvz 7y ago
> Cryptocoins aren't practical enough (yet?) to rely on completely for stuff like this. Really? I can understand "Bitcoin" as one of many cryptocurrencies that are unstable and very slow for these payments, but some cryptocurrencies are faster and cheaper than others and are suitable for this use-case. There are many ways to pay nowadays: 1. Scan a QR Code to send cryptocurrencies to the payee. 2. Type the address of the recipient into the form / app and send the amount. 3. Coinbase Card number / crypto address. No. (3) compliments the current fiat system and also works like a debit card, with several features: It allows the user to switch between multiple currencies in their Coinbase Card; not just Bitcoin. They can also withdraw from an ATM and receive its fiat currency and the card is compatible with direct debits. Depending on the cryptocurrency you use to send them over to another user, cryptocurrencies like Stellar and Ripple are much suitable for this and can be withdrawn into cash and can be sent faster than Bitcoin. No need for PayPal.
- Mirioron 7y ago
  The problem is that those systems are immature. Would you be willing to rely on them to earn your living, especially if you live in a poor country?
- andrewla 7y ago
  I think the vendors are often reluctant to move to systems like this as well, because a lot of their business model is of the form "subscribe to this thing" and put a recurring charge on the credit card in the hopes that the customer will be reluctant or embarrassed to cancel.
- simion314 7y ago
  I do not know that much about blockchain, so can you tell me if I am wrong, so if I use bitcoin to pay my rent and use bitcoin to buy something from PornHub now anybody can link this 2 payments and as the number of payments to different things increases I can be publicly identified. I read that some people would say don't use bgitoin use X or use process Y but then it is more convoluted then you would suggest initially.
  - whynaut 7y ago
    The typical way to go about this would be creating separate Bitcoin wallets for different types of purchases. Many wallet clients support this out of the box. Personally, I generate a new wallet for every transaction.
    - simion314 7y ago
      But how do I transfer bitcoins from your main wallet to the new one without having this transaction public so linking your wallets. As I said I did not researched this topic or own bitcoings, my scenario is that say we all use bitcoins everywhere, then I or you manage to upset some internet community, then they will start "hunting" , they could grab a list of all the transaction, see what you bought/sell from who you received money, who did you sent money , they could "cancel" people even faster then today.
      - whynaut 7y ago
        > But how do I transfer bitcoins from your main wallet to the new one without having this transaction public so linking your wallets. Don’t transfer between personal wallets: when you purchase BTC, send it directly to the wallet you’ll use those funds with. Transaction mixers (there are other names, but i think mixer is/was common) are a viable way to deter this kind of attack, as they muddy the transaction history between you and who you wish to pay (or yourself). You’ll have to pay for anything that’ll stand up to dedicated government/professional scrutiny, but i’ve seen more sites with some measure of mixing built in lately.
- bduerst 7y ago
  But it's not that simple. How do you handle fraudulent paments when you can never refund a bitcoin transaction? What about scale? If 20 million people used bitcoin, it would take over a month for a single transaction to process. You couldn't even use bitcoin to pay for rent on time. And no, the solutions to these problems are tacked on and over-engineered, which to GP's point, is too complex for average payment users.

rvz 7y ago

> Cryptocoins aren't practical enough (yet?) to rely on completely for stuff like this. Really? I can understand "Bitcoin" as one of many cryptocurrencies that are unstable and very slow for these payments, but some cryptocurrencies are faster and cheaper than others and are suitable for this use-case. There are many ways to pay nowadays: 1. Scan a QR Code to send cryptocurrencies to the payee. 2. Type the address of the recipient into the form / app and send the amount. 3. Coinbase Card number / crypto address. No. (3) compliments the current fiat system and also works like a debit card, with several features: It allows the user to switch between multiple currencies in their Coinbase Card; not just Bitcoin. They can also withdraw from an ATM and receive its fiat currency and the card is compatible with direct debits. Depending on the cryptocurrency you use to send them over to another user, cryptocurrencies like Stellar and Ripple are much suitable for this and can be withdrawn into cash and can be sent faster than Bitcoin. No need for PayPal.

Mirioron 7y ago
The problem is that those systems are immature. Would you be willing to rely on them to earn your living, especially if you live in a poor country?
andrewla 7y ago
I think the vendors are often reluctant to move to systems like this as well, because a lot of their business model is of the form "subscribe to this thing" and put a recurring charge on the credit card in the hopes that the customer will be reluctant or embarrassed to cancel.
simion314 7y ago
I do not know that much about blockchain, so can you tell me if I am wrong, so if I use bitcoin to pay my rent and use bitcoin to buy something from PornHub now anybody can link this 2 payments and as the number of payments to different things increases I can be publicly identified. I read that some people would say don't use bgitoin use X or use process Y but then it is more convoluted then you would suggest initially.
- whynaut 7y ago
  The typical way to go about this would be creating separate Bitcoin wallets for different types of purchases. Many wallet clients support this out of the box. Personally, I generate a new wallet for every transaction.
  - simion314 7y ago
    But how do I transfer bitcoins from your main wallet to the new one without having this transaction public so linking your wallets. As I said I did not researched this topic or own bitcoings, my scenario is that say we all use bitcoins everywhere, then I or you manage to upset some internet community, then they will start "hunting" , they could grab a list of all the transaction, see what you bought/sell from who you received money, who did you sent money , they could "cancel" people even faster then today.
    - whynaut 7y ago
      > But how do I transfer bitcoins from your main wallet to the new one without having this transaction public so linking your wallets. Don’t transfer between personal wallets: when you purchase BTC, send it directly to the wallet you’ll use those funds with. Transaction mixers (there are other names, but i think mixer is/was common) are a viable way to deter this kind of attack, as they muddy the transaction history between you and who you wish to pay (or yourself). You’ll have to pay for anything that’ll stand up to dedicated government/professional scrutiny, but i’ve seen more sites with some measure of mixing built in lately.
bduerst 7y ago
But it's not that simple. How do you handle fraudulent paments when you can never refund a bitcoin transaction? What about scale? If 20 million people used bitcoin, it would take over a month for a single transaction to process. You couldn't even use bitcoin to pay for rent on time. And no, the solutions to these problems are tacked on and over-engineered, which to GP's point, is too complex for average payment users.