4 ms·

Police target CUHK university as it holds HKIX which routes 99% of net traffic

42 points by larakerns 7y ago

larakerns 7y ago
Most US outlets are not reporting on this part of the story of the siege of CUHK university. If the police seize control of the university, they can monitor / filter all traffic. The whole city can go dark.
- NotSammyHagar 7y ago
  So please add a link or 2 that does talk about the story? The wikipedia link just describes the infrastructure.
  - larakerns 7y ago
    https://tw.news.yahoo.com/%E6%B8%AF%E8%AD%A6%E6%94%BB%E4%B8%AD%E5%A4%A7-%E7%B6%B2-%E9%80%99%E8%A3%A1%E5%87%BA%E4%BA%8B%E5%85%A8%E6%B8%AF%E7%84%A1%E7%B6%B2%E4%B8%8A-123011520.html https://tw.news.yahoo.com/%E6%B8%AF%E8%AD%A6%E6%94%BB%E4%B8%... https://www.epochtimes.jp/p/2019/11/48996.html https://www.epochtimes.jp/p/2019/11/48996.html
    - supernova87a 7y ago
      Who are you, and why are you seeming to post these sources multiple times? This is pure conspiracy theory through "news" sources that have highly dubious credentials. HN shouldn't be fueling this kind of unsubstantiated speculation.
- rsync 7y ago
  "If the police seize control of the university, they can monitor / filter all traffic. The whole city can go dark." I don't think that is true at all - at least not for the last 15 years. Almost everyone co-located in HK is in a totally different physical location than the University (such as iAdvantage or HKCOLO, near LOHAS Park) and have independent connections outbound to the world. We, for instance, are physically located inside HKCOLO and have a direct connection to he.net in Fremont, CA. If you traceroute rsync.net in Hong Kong, you typically don't leave he.net. I'm not sure how seizure (or even shutdown) of the University would affect infrastructure at iAdvantage or HKCOLO or Dyxian, etc.
- godot 7y ago
  The posting of this link with this title does not seem to adhere to HN guidelines, even though I see your intentions. I think it will soon be removed/moderated, but meanwhile, I did want to pose a technical question. I feel that the monitoring of traffic is unlikely. To clarify, this is not about taking a pro-China side, but more on technical aspect. Most modern web traffic happens in some form of encryption (most commonly https/ssl) and some are end-to-end encrypted (various messenger apps). Filtering is certainly possible/likely (just like the great firewall), but monitoring seems difficult (in the case of https traffic) or impossible (in the case of end-to-end encryption... hopefully impossible at least?). There'd have to be hardware-level/low-level trojans planted in individual devices to make that possible. Which isn't to say it's unlikely (from what we've heard in the past few years), but only that it's unlikely to happen with just a hostage of HKIX.
  - vorpalhex 7y ago
    China almost certainly has the ability to perform aggressive SSL interception given their investment in the great firewall. Almost all apps will either fall victim to it, or if they correctly use pinning, simply not load (and cause their users to swap to other apps).
daodedickinson 7y ago
I've read conflicting claims on this, but I don't have the expertise to judge. Some say much of HKIX is off-campus.
- yorwba 7y ago
  As listed in the #Facilities section of the Wikipedia article.
theseadroid 7y ago
The linked wiki page has nothing to do with the title.
- larakerns 7y ago
  Some articles (not in english) https://tw.news.yahoo.com/%E6%B8%AF%E8%AD%A6%E6%94%BB%E4%B8%AD%E5%A4%A7-%E7%B6%B2-%E9%80%99%E8%A3%A1%E5%87%BA%E4%BA%8B%E5%85%A8%E6%B8%AF%E7%84%A1%E7%B6%B2%E4%B8%8A-123011520.html https://tw.news.yahoo.com/%E6%B8%AF%E8%AD%A6%E6%94%BB%E4%B8%... https://www.epochtimes.jp/p/2019/11/48996.html https://www.epochtimes.jp/p/2019/11/48996.html
  - supernova87a 7y ago
    Who are you, and why are you seeming to post these sources multiple times? This is pure conspiracy theory through "news" sources that have highly dubious credentials. HN shouldn't be fueling this kind of unsubstantiated speculation.
  - sdinsn 7y ago
    Epoch times is a newspaper created by the Falun Gong cult FYI.
    - yorwba 7y ago
      They're still okay for anything not related to Falun Gong, I think.
supernova87a 7y ago
Where is this conspiracy theory-level kind of news coming from? And who is making this correlation?
- larakerns 7y ago
  Some articles (not in english) https://tw.news.yahoo.com/%E6%B8%AF%E8%AD%A6%E6%94%BB%E4%B8%AD%E5%A4%A7-%E7%B6%B2-%E9%80%99%E8%A3%A1%E5%87%BA%E4%BA%8B%E5%85%A8%E6%B8%AF%E7%84%A1%E7%B6%B2%E4%B8%8A-123011520.html https://tw.news.yahoo.com/%E6%B8%AF%E8%AD%A6%E6%94%BB%E4%B8%... https://www.epochtimes.jp/p/2019/11/48996.html https://www.epochtimes.jp/p/2019/11/48996.html
  - supernova87a 7y ago
    My god, what are we spreading here? This is pure conspiracy theory through "news" sources that have highly dubious credentials. HN shouldn't be fueling this kind of unsubstantiated speculation.
    - markdown 7y ago
      > My god, what are we spreading here? Putting aside whether or not the claims are true, why are you reacting as if this is particularly damaging or shocking? It's factual that Beijing does seek to censor and control information everywhere in China, and it's factual that they're currently attacking CUHK.
      - supernova87a 7y ago
        The only purpose of this "story" is just like the goals of Russian-fueled (or whoever) fake planted news -- to confuse and prevent people from having a clear understanding of what's going on. You advocate for allowing unsubstantiated news to be spread just because it fits into your view of what China admittedly has done in the past? Couldn't this story have been spread by the protestors to get people on their side with fake motivations?
foobar_fighter 7y ago
It is suggested in the Hacker News guidelines that one does not editorialize the title of an article. The actual title of this Wikipedia article is "Hong Kong Internet Exchange."
- idoh 7y ago
  True, but this seems like a reasonable exception, in that it provides context as to why post the link now.
  - deepsun 7y ago
    I haven't found anything about police in the article.
    - instantnoodler 7y ago
      Its why he posted the link. Not what the link is about.
lizhang 7y ago
If HK goes dark, will SpaceX Starlink/Google Loon deploy in the area?
dmix 7y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if the domestic HK security services haven't already sunk their claws deep into this organization... Pretty much every pipe is being tapped in western countries and I'm sure in Asia too. Of course explicitly controlling it and manipulating it is a bit different. This is probably a better article than the Wikipedia: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1269773/hong-kongs-internet-exchange-offers-snoopers-rich-pickings https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1269773/hong-kon...

42 points by larakerns 7y ago

Most US outlets are not reporting on this part of the story of the siege of CUHK university. If the police seize control of the university, they can monitor / filter all traffic. The whole city can go dark.

NotSammyHagar 7y ago
So please add a link or 2 that does talk about the story? The wikipedia link just describes the infrastructure.
- larakerns 7y ago
  https://tw.news.yahoo.com/%E6%B8%AF%E8%AD%A6%E6%94%BB%E4%B8%AD%E5%A4%A7-%E7%B6%B2-%E9%80%99%E8%A3%A1%E5%87%BA%E4%BA%8B%E5%85%A8%E6%B8%AF%E7%84%A1%E7%B6%B2%E4%B8%8A-123011520.html https://tw.news.yahoo.com/%E6%B8%AF%E8%AD%A6%E6%94%BB%E4%B8%... https://www.epochtimes.jp/p/2019/11/48996.html https://www.epochtimes.jp/p/2019/11/48996.html
  - supernova87a 7y ago
    Who are you, and why are you seeming to post these sources multiple times? This is pure conspiracy theory through "news" sources that have highly dubious credentials. HN shouldn't be fueling this kind of unsubstantiated speculation.
rsync 7y ago
"If the police seize control of the university, they can monitor / filter all traffic. The whole city can go dark." I don't think that is true at all - at least not for the last 15 years. Almost everyone co-located in HK is in a totally different physical location than the University (such as iAdvantage or HKCOLO, near LOHAS Park) and have independent connections outbound to the world. We, for instance, are physically located inside HKCOLO and have a direct connection to he.net in Fremont, CA. If you traceroute rsync.net in Hong Kong, you typically don't leave he.net. I'm not sure how seizure (or even shutdown) of the University would affect infrastructure at iAdvantage or HKCOLO or Dyxian, etc.
godot 7y ago
The posting of this link with this title does not seem to adhere to HN guidelines, even though I see your intentions. I think it will soon be removed/moderated, but meanwhile, I did want to pose a technical question. I feel that the monitoring of traffic is unlikely. To clarify, this is not about taking a pro-China side, but more on technical aspect. Most modern web traffic happens in some form of encryption (most commonly https/ssl) and some are end-to-end encrypted (various messenger apps). Filtering is certainly possible/likely (just like the great firewall), but monitoring seems difficult (in the case of https traffic) or impossible (in the case of end-to-end encryption... hopefully impossible at least?). There'd have to be hardware-level/low-level trojans planted in individual devices to make that possible. Which isn't to say it's unlikely (from what we've heard in the past few years), but only that it's unlikely to happen with just a hostage of HKIX.
- vorpalhex 7y ago
  China almost certainly has the ability to perform aggressive SSL interception given their investment in the great firewall. Almost all apps will either fall victim to it, or if they correctly use pinning, simply not load (and cause their users to swap to other apps).

daodedickinson 7y ago

I've read conflicting claims on this, but I don't have the expertise to judge. Some say much of HKIX is off-campus.

yorwba 7y ago
As listed in the #Facilities section of the Wikipedia article.

theseadroid 7y ago

The linked wiki page has nothing to do with the title.

larakerns 7y ago
Some articles (not in english) https://tw.news.yahoo.com/%E6%B8%AF%E8%AD%A6%E6%94%BB%E4%B8%AD%E5%A4%A7-%E7%B6%B2-%E9%80%99%E8%A3%A1%E5%87%BA%E4%BA%8B%E5%85%A8%E6%B8%AF%E7%84%A1%E7%B6%B2%E4%B8%8A-123011520.html https://tw.news.yahoo.com/%E6%B8%AF%E8%AD%A6%E6%94%BB%E4%B8%... https://www.epochtimes.jp/p/2019/11/48996.html https://www.epochtimes.jp/p/2019/11/48996.html
- supernova87a 7y ago
  Who are you, and why are you seeming to post these sources multiple times? This is pure conspiracy theory through "news" sources that have highly dubious credentials. HN shouldn't be fueling this kind of unsubstantiated speculation.
- sdinsn 7y ago
  Epoch times is a newspaper created by the Falun Gong cult FYI.
  - yorwba 7y ago
    They're still okay for anything not related to Falun Gong, I think.

supernova87a 7y ago

Where is this conspiracy theory-level kind of news coming from? And who is making this correlation?

larakerns 7y ago
Some articles (not in english) https://tw.news.yahoo.com/%E6%B8%AF%E8%AD%A6%E6%94%BB%E4%B8%AD%E5%A4%A7-%E7%B6%B2-%E9%80%99%E8%A3%A1%E5%87%BA%E4%BA%8B%E5%85%A8%E6%B8%AF%E7%84%A1%E7%B6%B2%E4%B8%8A-123011520.html https://tw.news.yahoo.com/%E6%B8%AF%E8%AD%A6%E6%94%BB%E4%B8%... https://www.epochtimes.jp/p/2019/11/48996.html https://www.epochtimes.jp/p/2019/11/48996.html
- supernova87a 7y ago
  My god, what are we spreading here? This is pure conspiracy theory through "news" sources that have highly dubious credentials. HN shouldn't be fueling this kind of unsubstantiated speculation.
  - markdown 7y ago
    > My god, what are we spreading here? Putting aside whether or not the claims are true, why are you reacting as if this is particularly damaging or shocking? It's factual that Beijing does seek to censor and control information everywhere in China, and it's factual that they're currently attacking CUHK.
    - supernova87a 7y ago
      The only purpose of this "story" is just like the goals of Russian-fueled (or whoever) fake planted news -- to confuse and prevent people from having a clear understanding of what's going on. You advocate for allowing unsubstantiated news to be spread just because it fits into your view of what China admittedly has done in the past? Couldn't this story have been spread by the protestors to get people on their side with fake motivations?

foobar_fighter 7y ago

It is suggested in the Hacker News guidelines that one does not editorialize the title of an article. The actual title of this Wikipedia article is "Hong Kong Internet Exchange."

idoh 7y ago
True, but this seems like a reasonable exception, in that it provides context as to why post the link now.
- deepsun 7y ago
  I haven't found anything about police in the article.
  - instantnoodler 7y ago
    Its why he posted the link. Not what the link is about.

lizhang 7y ago

If HK goes dark, will SpaceX Starlink/Google Loon deploy in the area?

dmix 7y ago

I wouldn't be surprised if the domestic HK security services haven't already sunk their claws deep into this organization... Pretty much every pipe is being tapped in western countries and I'm sure in Asia too. Of course explicitly controlling it and manipulating it is a bit different. This is probably a better article than the Wikipedia: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1269773/hong-kongs-internet-exchange-offers-snoopers-rich-pickings https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1269773/hong-kon...