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The only way i think it can be done is simulated evolution.. be that simulated evolution of neural nets or something else. As others have mentioned here though

The only way i think it can be done is simulated evolution.. be that simulated evolution of neural nets or something else. As others have mentioned here though.. this becomes horrifying if we've created something sentient to kill in games or enslave.

arethuza 7y ago
Reverse engineering a human mind would be another approach.
- olalonde 7y ago
  This is often overlooked but it's the only approach that is pretty much guaranteed to succeed given enough time. That said, it's also likely that AGI will come about way earlier from another approach (just as planes came before the "robot birds").
  - Quarrelsome 7y ago
    While I agree this leads to haunting outcomes. e.g. If we create a successful interface then whats the point of building our own digital pastiches if we can just strap in the real thing?
- Animats 7y ago
  Check out OpenWorm. They're trying to reverse engineer the simplest organism with a nervous system, a nematode with 302 neurons. They're making progress, but not very fast. That approach is going to be a long haul.
loquor 7y ago
> simulated evolution Isn't that what genetic algorithms are?
- lawlessone 7y ago
  yeah, one kind i guess. Or perhaps they cover all kinds?
codeulike 7y ago
I've been thinking for a while that use of AI in games might become a civil rights frontier in about 30 to 50 years or so
betageek 7y ago
Ted Chiang wrote an interesting novella, The Lifecycle of Software Objects, about that very subject https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lifecycle_of_Software_Objects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lifecycle_of_Software_Obje...
- sampo 7y ago
  Another one is Crystal Nights by Greg Egan. Full text here: https://web.archive.org/web/20090604111226/http://ttapress.com/553/crystal-nights-by-greg-egan/ https://web.archive.org/web/20090604111226/http://ttapress.c...
  - marcus_holmes 7y ago
    Or Iain Banks' take on the subject, in Surface Detail(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Detail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Detail) edit: wrong book ;)
state_less 7y ago
The open ended simulations, similar to earth conditions, might general enough to sprout some artificial general intelligence. Put multiple intelligences in a massive multiplayer online world and have them compete for shelter and resources. It's an environment that we know has produced intelligence. It may be a brutal struggle, but perhaps that struggle is important. Perhaps having a simulated tree fall on you is more meaningful than being reaped by some objective function at the end of an epoch.
- simonh 7y ago
  I think you’re on a potentially productive path, but it took 2 billion years of evolution in a staggeringly vast environment like that to produce results. The question is really how to shortcut that process, but training environments may well have a role to play.
marcus_holmes 7y ago
well, "kill" becomes moot if the code is preserved. Like "killing" another player in a multi-player game. You're not actually killing them.
- bumby 7y ago
  This may be a clunky analogy, but is this fundamentally different than a killing a human as long as we keep a record of their DNA sequence? Maintaining the information doesn't seem enough to negate snuffing out the execution of that information
  - BjorksEgo 7y ago
    Not if we persist the state of the mind before we turn them off. Can't do that with humans
    - marcus_holmes 7y ago
      yet
  - marcus_holmes 7y ago
    The generic AI could be "playing" in a thousand virtual environments at once. Killing one of them doesn't really have a parallel in human life, or ethics. I mean, yes, you killed a sentient being. But if that sentient being has a thousand concurrent lives, then what does "killing" one of those lives even mean? And if it can respawn another identical life in a millisecond, does it even count as killing? I suspect that having sentient virtual entities will provide philosophy and ethics majors a lot of deep thinking room. As it already has for SciFi authors.
    - bumby 7y ago
      Would this opinion change if scientists were able to prove the multiverse theory where there are infinite numbers of "us" living concurrent lives as well?

arethuza 7y ago

Reverse engineering a human mind would be another approach.

olalonde 7y ago
This is often overlooked but it's the only approach that is pretty much guaranteed to succeed given enough time. That said, it's also likely that AGI will come about way earlier from another approach (just as planes came before the "robot birds").
- Quarrelsome 7y ago
  While I agree this leads to haunting outcomes. e.g. If we create a successful interface then whats the point of building our own digital pastiches if we can just strap in the real thing?
Animats 7y ago
Check out OpenWorm. They're trying to reverse engineer the simplest organism with a nervous system, a nematode with 302 neurons. They're making progress, but not very fast. That approach is going to be a long haul.

loquor 7y ago

> simulated evolution Isn't that what genetic algorithms are?

lawlessone 7y ago
yeah, one kind i guess. Or perhaps they cover all kinds?

codeulike 7y ago

I've been thinking for a while that use of AI in games might become a civil rights frontier in about 30 to 50 years or so

betageek 7y ago

Ted Chiang wrote an interesting novella, The Lifecycle of Software Objects, about that very subject https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lifecycle_of_Software_Objects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lifecycle_of_Software_Obje...

sampo 7y ago
Another one is Crystal Nights by Greg Egan. Full text here: https://web.archive.org/web/20090604111226/http://ttapress.com/553/crystal-nights-by-greg-egan/ https://web.archive.org/web/20090604111226/http://ttapress.c...
- marcus_holmes 7y ago
  Or Iain Banks' take on the subject, in Surface Detail(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Detail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Detail) edit: wrong book ;)

state_less 7y ago

The open ended simulations, similar to earth conditions, might general enough to sprout some artificial general intelligence. Put multiple intelligences in a massive multiplayer online world and have them compete for shelter and resources. It's an environment that we know has produced intelligence. It may be a brutal struggle, but perhaps that struggle is important. Perhaps having a simulated tree fall on you is more meaningful than being reaped by some objective function at the end of an epoch.

simonh 7y ago
I think you’re on a potentially productive path, but it took 2 billion years of evolution in a staggeringly vast environment like that to produce results. The question is really how to shortcut that process, but training environments may well have a role to play.

marcus_holmes 7y ago

well, "kill" becomes moot if the code is preserved. Like "killing" another player in a multi-player game. You're not actually killing them.

bumby 7y ago
This may be a clunky analogy, but is this fundamentally different than a killing a human as long as we keep a record of their DNA sequence? Maintaining the information doesn't seem enough to negate snuffing out the execution of that information
- BjorksEgo 7y ago
  Not if we persist the state of the mind before we turn them off. Can't do that with humans
  - marcus_holmes 7y ago
    yet
- marcus_holmes 7y ago
  The generic AI could be "playing" in a thousand virtual environments at once. Killing one of them doesn't really have a parallel in human life, or ethics. I mean, yes, you killed a sentient being. But if that sentient being has a thousand concurrent lives, then what does "killing" one of those lives even mean? And if it can respawn another identical life in a millisecond, does it even count as killing? I suspect that having sentient virtual entities will provide philosophy and ethics majors a lot of deep thinking room. As it already has for SciFi authors.
  - bumby 7y ago
    Would this opinion change if scientists were able to prove the multiverse theory where there are infinite numbers of "us" living concurrent lives as well?