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Sony went corporate American. After the Betamax debacle it decided it would win the next format war by owning studios. That meant that anything it built for t

Sony went corporate American. After the Betamax debacle it decided it would win the next format war by owning studios. That meant that anything it built for the consumer also had to be good for the studio. So for example it launched the excellent minidisk player (a 76Mb minifloppy) with better than MP3 quality when MP3 players were 32Mb for twice the price. But it refused to release the minidisk drives for computers, because that would lead to piracy - so the only way to get music on the units was to buy all your albums again on minidisk (the studio's preferred option !) or record them on the microphone in. Then they did the same again with the PSP. Suppose Apple had decided to ensure the success of the iPhone, not by making it great, but by buying a cell carrier - then limiting your calls to other iPhone users.

ryandvm 16y ago
Sort of like how you can't do squat with music/movies on iOS unless it's through iTunes?
- protomyth 16y ago
  Pandora and Rhapsody seem to work just fine. Audible seems to have a nice app for all those audiobooks. Netflix also seems to work fine.
  - alxp 16y ago
    Apple certainly could have made it easier to put any old video you want into iTunes, I think they made a strategic decision to coax people into purchasing video through iTunes by making it hard to just drop AVIs into it. If they had tried this with iTunes - come out with the music store before the player and limited you to only listening to music you bought through the store, they'd have been dead in the water. I'm sure they're more than happy with the sales of videos in iTunes but they certainly left a pretty wide hole where iTunes could have been the default video player for everything instead of just their own stuff.
    - tptacek 16y ago
      The version of the iTunes Music Store where people can put whatever media they want up for sale sounds, to me, as a consumer, less valuable than the single place I can go now to get almost any album on any label I normally listen to, or get the most recent episode of Parks & Rec. I'm sure there's great stuff on sale at flea markets too, but I don't want to shop there. Sorry.
      - true_religion 16y ago
        > The version of the iTunes Music Store where people can put whatever media they want up for sale sounds The op doesn't mean that iTunes would be used for selling media. Rather it'd be your personal media player for everything like AVI/Mpeg/etc. like VLC is. I don't know how well iTunes can do this as is, but that's what he's arguing for.
        tptacek 16y ago
        You're obviously right. Sorry for misreading.
- itg 16y ago
  Not sure what your are trying to say or if you even use an iOS product. You can easily play music/movies not purchased through iTunes and there is other software out there that allows people to manage music/movies if they don't want to use iTunes. So no, it's really not the same thing at all.
- iujyhgftrgh 16y ago
  Not quite the same though - Apple setup iTunes to make it easier for iPod owners to use their product - and making Apple some money in the process. They didn't decide to limit the iPod to 32Kb/s playback to protect sales of their CD players
metageek 16y ago
Actually, I'm not sure they learned anything from Betamax. Other companies avoid format wars; Sony launches them, always hoping for license fees. Minidisc, ATRAC, Memory Stick, Digital8, UMD: all formats launched into crowded markets, usually with little or no advantage over the incumbents. (I thought Blu-Ray was an example, but a quick Wikipedia check says Blu-Ray was announced 2 months before the DVD Forum voted to develop HD-DVD.) They've won a few, too; most notably, 3.5" floppies (where Apple crowned the winner by choosing Sony for Mac).
- jacquesm 16y ago
  Format wars are like the lottery. If you play often enough you might strike it lucky one day and that will make up for all the tickets you bought. I can see why they keep playing, the odds are considerably better than in the lottery, even if the price of the tickets is higher.
WalterBright 16y ago
I bought an early Minidisk player (still have it), and you could record with it using ordinary line in RCA jacks. A microphone was not necessary. As a replacement for a cassette deck, it beat the pants off of it. Sadly, the copy protection on the disks (it wouldn't even let you do a bit copy of your own disk recordings) killed it.
- iujyhgftrgh 16y ago
  Sorry I meant line in - the point was that you had to go the analog route because they wanted to restrict your use for their studio's sake. If Sony had made a cheap PC drive that took minidisk it would have been as popular as floppies and been a real selling point for their PCs.
  - WalterBright 16y ago
    I agree. It's a sad case of what-might-have-been.
pvg 16y ago
MiniDisc came out in '92, well before any portable MP3 players existed. MiniDisc recorders typically had optical digital inputs so you could get your albums on them from CD just fine.
- ugh 16y ago
  How widespread was optical digital out in 2001 compared to USB ports? What mattered is whether it was easy to get pirated MP3s from the PC to the player. Fiddling around with optical digital out compared to the much simpler USB seems backwards. MiniDisks might well have been superior to cassettes but compared to MP3 players? Ugh. MiniDisks would have been pretty cool (at least for a short time) if you could have plugged them into a USB port.
  - pvg 16y ago
    My point was not to debate MiniDiscs but that just about everything the OP is using to support their argument is factually inaccurate. It's basically gibberish with a little ZOMG APPLE/IPHONE indignation morsel thrown in at the end.
    - ugh 16y ago
      The OP was correct about saying that you need line-in. That’s what I, too, always perceived as the major downside of MiniDisk. (He said micro-in but already corrected himself on that. An honest mistake, he actually meant line-in. That doesn’t make it gibberish.)
  - iujyhgftrgh 16y ago
    when I bought my minidisc they were about $100, a comparable Creative flash based Mp3 player was 32Mb. You could have a handful of disks with 80mins of HQ music on each whereas the MP3 players of the time were either very expensive (like the first harddisk iPod) or had so little space you had to chose a few songs for each trip.
    - ugh 16y ago

ryandvm 16y ago

Sort of like how you can't do squat with music/movies on iOS unless it's through iTunes?

protomyth 16y ago
Pandora and Rhapsody seem to work just fine. Audible seems to have a nice app for all those audiobooks. Netflix also seems to work fine.
- alxp 16y ago
  Apple certainly could have made it easier to put any old video you want into iTunes, I think they made a strategic decision to coax people into purchasing video through iTunes by making it hard to just drop AVIs into it. If they had tried this with iTunes - come out with the music store before the player and limited you to only listening to music you bought through the store, they'd have been dead in the water. I'm sure they're more than happy with the sales of videos in iTunes but they certainly left a pretty wide hole where iTunes could have been the default video player for everything instead of just their own stuff.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    The version of the iTunes Music Store where people can put whatever media they want up for sale sounds, to me, as a consumer, less valuable than the single place I can go now to get almost any album on any label I normally listen to, or get the most recent episode of Parks & Rec. I'm sure there's great stuff on sale at flea markets too, but I don't want to shop there. Sorry.
    - true_religion 16y ago
      > The version of the iTunes Music Store where people can put whatever media they want up for sale sounds The op doesn't mean that iTunes would be used for selling media. Rather it'd be your personal media player for everything like AVI/Mpeg/etc. like VLC is. I don't know how well iTunes can do this as is, but that's what he's arguing for.
      - tptacek 16y ago
        You're obviously right. Sorry for misreading.
itg 16y ago
Not sure what your are trying to say or if you even use an iOS product. You can easily play music/movies not purchased through iTunes and there is other software out there that allows people to manage music/movies if they don't want to use iTunes. So no, it's really not the same thing at all.
iujyhgftrgh 16y ago
Not quite the same though - Apple setup iTunes to make it easier for iPod owners to use their product - and making Apple some money in the process. They didn't decide to limit the iPod to 32Kb/s playback to protect sales of their CD players

metageek 16y ago

Actually, I'm not sure they learned anything from Betamax. Other companies avoid format wars; Sony launches them, always hoping for license fees. Minidisc, ATRAC, Memory Stick, Digital8, UMD: all formats launched into crowded markets, usually with little or no advantage over the incumbents. (I thought Blu-Ray was an example, but a quick Wikipedia check says Blu-Ray was announced 2 months before the DVD Forum voted to develop HD-DVD.) They've won a few, too; most notably, 3.5" floppies (where Apple crowned the winner by choosing Sony for Mac).

jacquesm 16y ago
Format wars are like the lottery. If you play often enough you might strike it lucky one day and that will make up for all the tickets you bought. I can see why they keep playing, the odds are considerably better than in the lottery, even if the price of the tickets is higher.

WalterBright 16y ago

I bought an early Minidisk player (still have it), and you could record with it using ordinary line in RCA jacks. A microphone was not necessary. As a replacement for a cassette deck, it beat the pants off of it. Sadly, the copy protection on the disks (it wouldn't even let you do a bit copy of your own disk recordings) killed it.

iujyhgftrgh 16y ago
Sorry I meant line in - the point was that you had to go the analog route because they wanted to restrict your use for their studio's sake. If Sony had made a cheap PC drive that took minidisk it would have been as popular as floppies and been a real selling point for their PCs.
- WalterBright 16y ago
  I agree. It's a sad case of what-might-have-been.

pvg 16y ago

MiniDisc came out in '92, well before any portable MP3 players existed. MiniDisc recorders typically had optical digital inputs so you could get your albums on them from CD just fine.

ugh 16y ago
How widespread was optical digital out in 2001 compared to USB ports? What mattered is whether it was easy to get pirated MP3s from the PC to the player. Fiddling around with optical digital out compared to the much simpler USB seems backwards. MiniDisks might well have been superior to cassettes but compared to MP3 players? Ugh. MiniDisks would have been pretty cool (at least for a short time) if you could have plugged them into a USB port.
- pvg 16y ago
  My point was not to debate MiniDiscs but that just about everything the OP is using to support their argument is factually inaccurate. It's basically gibberish with a little ZOMG APPLE/IPHONE indignation morsel thrown in at the end.
  - ugh 16y ago
    The OP was correct about saying that you need line-in. That’s what I, too, always perceived as the major downside of MiniDisk. (He said micro-in but already corrected himself on that. An honest mistake, he actually meant line-in. That doesn’t make it gibberish.)
- iujyhgftrgh 16y ago
  when I bought my minidisc they were about $100, a comparable Creative flash based Mp3 player was 32Mb. You could have a handful of disks with 80mins of HQ music on each whereas the MP3 players of the time were either very expensive (like the first harddisk iPod) or had so little space you had to chose a few songs for each trip.
  - ugh 16y ago