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Thanks for saying this. I am sick of software engineers thinking they are smarter and than other people because they make more money. How much money you make d

Thanks for saying this. I am sick of software engineers thinking they are smarter and than other people because they make more money. How much money you make does not equate to your worth as a human being. Software engineering is not that difficult. There are lots of things just as difficult if not more difficult than software engineering. The majority of software engineers contribute very little to society if anything. Just because you have a good software engineering job does not make you a successful person or better than other people who are pursuing other ways of living their lives.

torgian 7y ago
Coming from the self-taught perspective, I disagree that software engineering is not difficult. It is difficult. Otherwise everyone would be doing it just for the money. Though I do agree with you on the other points, although it seems like you are bitter about something. That said, I work with a company that makes stuff that does contribute to society in a positive way, and because of that I make less than most. When I started to teach myself, I knew I never wanted to work on something that was involved in ads, data collection for ads, or making junk software, which seems to be the focus of the majority of software companies.
- ianleeclark 7y ago
  > Otherwise everyone would be doing it just for the money. This is pure survivor bias talking while ignoring impediments that make switching careers, retraining, &c., not a viable path for most people. The fact that there are structural impediments does not make it difficult.
  - torgian 7y ago
    Your comment makes no sense. Survival bias? Structural impediments? I get that not everyone can become a software engineer due to many different reasons. Your comment can literally be applied to any other industry that someone might try to get into when changing careers. It's a poor reason.
    - spookthesunset 7y ago
      > Your comment can literally be applied to any other industry that someone might try to get into when changing careers. I think that is their point. Software developers are no different than any other craft.
triceratops 7y ago
Software engineering is pretty darned difficult. But it turns out that there are also plenty of difficult-but-poorly-paying fields. Journalism is one of them. GP is absolutely wrong that a bunch of software engineers can stand up a decent news reporting org.
- quaquaqua1 7y ago
  As a journalist turned software dev, it is not hard to write text, and it is not hard to display text on a screen at scale. It is, however, difficult to land advertising deals that are needed to fund the company.
  - triceratops 7y ago
    I thought that "write text" was the easiest part of journalism. Most people capable of getting through college (usually required for both software and journalism jobs) are capable of writing at a high enough standard for any journalism outlet. Doing research, then understanding and distilling it, developing contacts, networks, and sources - these seem like the hard parts of journalism. If "display text on a screen at scale" wasn't hard it was it wouldn't be a multi-billion dollar industry with crazy high salaries. Not to mention, it's not just displaying the text but everything that goes into it - figuring out product market fit, getting hundreds or thousands of engineers organized and productive, logistics of data centers and hardware. If writing good news and good software both come easily to you, you just might be an outlier. Or you're taking a very superficial view of both kinds of work.

torgian 7y ago

Coming from the self-taught perspective, I disagree that software engineering is not difficult. It is difficult. Otherwise everyone would be doing it just for the money. Though I do agree with you on the other points, although it seems like you are bitter about something. That said, I work with a company that makes stuff that does contribute to society in a positive way, and because of that I make less than most. When I started to teach myself, I knew I never wanted to work on something that was involved in ads, data collection for ads, or making junk software, which seems to be the focus of the majority of software companies.

ianleeclark 7y ago
> Otherwise everyone would be doing it just for the money. This is pure survivor bias talking while ignoring impediments that make switching careers, retraining, &c., not a viable path for most people. The fact that there are structural impediments does not make it difficult.
- torgian 7y ago
  Your comment makes no sense. Survival bias? Structural impediments? I get that not everyone can become a software engineer due to many different reasons. Your comment can literally be applied to any other industry that someone might try to get into when changing careers. It's a poor reason.
  - spookthesunset 7y ago
    > Your comment can literally be applied to any other industry that someone might try to get into when changing careers. I think that is their point. Software developers are no different than any other craft.

triceratops 7y ago

Software engineering is pretty darned difficult. But it turns out that there are also plenty of difficult-but-poorly-paying fields. Journalism is one of them. GP is absolutely wrong that a bunch of software engineers can stand up a decent news reporting org.

quaquaqua1 7y ago
As a journalist turned software dev, it is not hard to write text, and it is not hard to display text on a screen at scale. It is, however, difficult to land advertising deals that are needed to fund the company.
- triceratops 7y ago
  I thought that "write text" was the easiest part of journalism. Most people capable of getting through college (usually required for both software and journalism jobs) are capable of writing at a high enough standard for any journalism outlet. Doing research, then understanding and distilling it, developing contacts, networks, and sources - these seem like the hard parts of journalism. If "display text on a screen at scale" wasn't hard it was it wouldn't be a multi-billion dollar industry with crazy high salaries. Not to mention, it's not just displaying the text but everything that goes into it - figuring out product market fit, getting hundreds or thousands of engineers organized and productive, logistics of data centers and hardware. If writing good news and good software both come easily to you, you just might be an outlier. Or you're taking a very superficial view of both kinds of work.