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> So no, the data shows that these jobs are paid a normal amount, while programmers are vastly overpaid. You are speaking a lot these days about the ills of so
by pen2l 7y ago
> So no, the data shows that these jobs are paid a normal amount, while programmers are vastly overpaid.
You are speaking a lot these days about the ills of socialism in contrast to capitalism. Programmers being paid well is a great example of capitalism at play. If you're a great programmer, you can make a lot of money. This is now common knowledge, and it should encourage more people to get in the field. It's an example of capitalism working well, why do you have a problem with this?
- tptacek 7y agoThe only person in this entire thread talking about socialism is you.
- pen2l 7y ago1. I didn't say he was speaking about socialism/capitalism in this thread, I said he'd been speaking about it a lot lately. [1] 2. It wasn't meant to be a snark (though I can see that it came off in a bad way, and I regret that), it was a genuine question taking in consideration his stated views in past comments, and I actually just really wanted to hear his thoughts 3. While I have your ear, and while I see that you seem to be defending rayiner against any critique he receives; presumably you guys are thus on the same page on this, so I would like to hear your response on the question I posed to him: programmers getting paid a high wage is a manifestation of capitalism, what's your problem with it? [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21520234 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21520234 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21446484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21446484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21442814 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21442814 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21439347 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21439347 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21438960 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21438960 etc.
- tptacek 7y agoI'd answer that question, though my answer would be boring, but for the "you seem to be defending rayiner against any critique he receives" barb, which is both uncivil and incorrect. What is true is that I tend to read all of Rayiner's comments, because he thinks differently than I do and writes carefully, and I find his perspective valuable. I do not, on the other hand, find the enterprise of trying to hound him off threads useful.
- pen2l 7y agoI would like to apologize for the barb, and then pose the same question. Programmers getting paid well is a result of capitalism, they are valued and in low numbers -- if this was not so, if they were in great numbers, they would not be paid as well. This is basically capitalism. Where do you take issue with this?
- tptacek 7y agoI'm generally positive about capitalism. I think software developers are not going to make anomalously high incomes forever and if people want to enjoy it while they can, mazel tov. The corrective to software developer overcompensation isn't to artificially restrict their income; it's to break down gatekeeping barriers to the profession, which is what I think will happen.
- pen2l 7y agoGot it, thank you for sharing your thoughts. > it's to break down gatekeeping barriers to the profession What are some good ways to break down these gatekeeping barriers, in your view?
- rayiner 7y agoI feel like you’re reading more of a value judgment into my post above than intended. When I said “programmers are overpaid” I mean in the very specific, arithmetic sense described in my post. Programmers are overpaid relative to what an even distribution of income would produce. (So are doctors, lawyers, advertising professions, and indeed almost all white collar professionals.) The point was merely to refute the idea that jobs paying $60k are “underpaid”—the economy doesn’t produce enough for all jobs to pay like programmers make.