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Okay, that's your position. Plenty of people do not want an AI that, say, gives parole to someone that is a high risk of re-offending because someone engineered

Okay, that's your position. Plenty of people do not want an AI that, say, gives parole to someone that is a high risk of re-offending because someone engineered the AI to be more lenient towards people who grew up in areas with greater lead exposure.

crooked-v 7y ago
Consider if someone grew up in an area of high lead exposure but was, one way or another, protected from it as a child [1]. Should they be treated as having the same recidivism risk factor as someone who suffered the full effects of lead exposure? If not, how do you separate the effects of lead exposure from other factors to recidivism rates? [1] See the 1999 documentary Blast from the Past.
- manfredo 7y ago
  The better approach is to define what inputs are going to be used, explicitly. Some like race and religion are going not going to be used, as discrimination on the basis of race or religion is off limits. But age, past offences, and the like probably are But I think we're diverging considerably from the original point: that forcing an AI to produce equal outcomes despite unequal behavior in the real world is not the elimination of bias, it's the deliberate introduction of bias. If we have an AI that predicts recidivism rates, and we engineer it to produce equal predicted rates across all groups despite different between rates groups in the real world then we are deliberate introducing bias. The truth, regrettable thought may be, is that a magical AI that operates with 100% accuracy - the only people who it flags would have re-offended - is going to produce disparities because recidivism rates are not equal.
  - iknowalot 7y ago
    I'm sure an algorithm looking at the current state of the world would surmise Europeans are geniuses when compared to the rest of the world population. Totally ignoring the $150+ trillion of wealth stolen at gunpoint over the last 2+ centuries. The blindspots end up being extremely problematic.
    - manfredo 7y ago
      Can you elaborate on how European imperialism is related to whether or not we should take lead exposure into account during parole hearings in the United States?

crooked-v 7y ago

Consider if someone grew up in an area of high lead exposure but was, one way or another, protected from it as a child [1]. Should they be treated as having the same recidivism risk factor as someone who suffered the full effects of lead exposure? If not, how do you separate the effects of lead exposure from other factors to recidivism rates? [1] See the 1999 documentary Blast from the Past.

manfredo 7y ago
The better approach is to define what inputs are going to be used, explicitly. Some like race and religion are going not going to be used, as discrimination on the basis of race or religion is off limits. But age, past offences, and the like probably are But I think we're diverging considerably from the original point: that forcing an AI to produce equal outcomes despite unequal behavior in the real world is not the elimination of bias, it's the deliberate introduction of bias. If we have an AI that predicts recidivism rates, and we engineer it to produce equal predicted rates across all groups despite different between rates groups in the real world then we are deliberate introducing bias. The truth, regrettable thought may be, is that a magical AI that operates with 100% accuracy - the only people who it flags would have re-offended - is going to produce disparities because recidivism rates are not equal.
- iknowalot 7y ago
  I'm sure an algorithm looking at the current state of the world would surmise Europeans are geniuses when compared to the rest of the world population. Totally ignoring the $150+ trillion of wealth stolen at gunpoint over the last 2+ centuries. The blindspots end up being extremely problematic.
  - manfredo 7y ago
    Can you elaborate on how European imperialism is related to whether or not we should take lead exposure into account during parole hearings in the United States?