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Conceptual acid test: Go to https://archiveprogram.github.com https://archiveprogram.github.com, then disable all CSS. Observe: resultant web page is unusable

Conceptual acid test: Go to https://archiveprogram.github.com https://archiveprogram.github.com, then disable all CSS. Observe: resultant web page is unusable.

hollerith 7y ago
How would I disable CSS in Chrome?
- saagarjha 7y ago
  I don't think you can without an extension.
- arthurcolle 7y ago
  In Chrome DevTools you could delete the link element that includes the stylesheet.
  - hollerith 7y ago
    I was able to do that (so, thank you) but don't understand what great grandparent means by unusable. I prefer it to the version with CSS (which I gave up on after about 2 seconds before getting intrigued by great grandparent). The list of partners is not rendered; is that what qualifies it as unusable, great grandparent? (I am participating here solely out of curiosity about the web; am not trying to make any point or argue any position.)
    - stblack 7y ago
      The question is, will CSS and any other present-day tech be around in the medium-future? We know plain text will be around. I was surprised to find the website promoting this is tricked-out, which isn't consistent with very long-term vision of the project.
- stblack 7y ago
  At the risk of "OK Boomer" replies... Chris Pedrick's Web Developer Toolbar, an extension that was once the greatest thing, does this and many other useful and insightful things. My fave, I think, is Information -> View Document Outline, which is pivotal for gaming Google SEO, by telling you how your Heading tags semantically convey the page's story. https://chrispederick.com/work/web-developer/ https://chrispederick.com/work/web-developer/
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  Dev tools is the most accessible. uMatrix can disable CSS for any source, including 1st-order references. There are extensions which will disable CSS as well. Alternatively, you can view under a console mode browser (lynx, links, elinks, w3m, etc.), and see what appears.
sdinsn 7y ago
Solution: just don't disable CSS.
- stblack 7y ago
  Conceptually what, beyond plain text, is guaranteed to function in the far future? You can count on 2019-vintage CSS and JS to be completely unusable. So the acid test is, have the people implementing this really thought this through? Based on the web pages they are using, the answer appears to be, no.
  - vimslayer 7y ago
    Plain text is not guaranteed to function in the far future.
    - dredmorbius 7y ago
      On a technical complexity scale, plain text is a hell of a lot less complex than CSS + JS + remote deps + whatever. Complexity is the enemy of reliability. A principle first stated in 1958 in The Economist. https://books.google.com/books?id=aDsiAQAAMAAJ&dq="complexity+is+the+enemy+of+reliability"+economist&focus=searchwithinvolume&q="complexity+is+the+enemy+of+reliability" https://books.google.com/books?id=aDsiAQAAMAAJ&dq="complexit...
  - sdinsn 7y ago
    Fortunately for us, we're not viewing this page in the future, we're viewing it in the present!
liquidise 7y ago
Not sure if OP meant JS instead. When i disable JS in Firefox i get a dark grey page visibly lacking any content.
MauranKilom 7y ago
See the above comment tree: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21528446 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21528446 I would consider it pretty obvious that the permanence of usability/readability for archiveprogram.github.com is orthogonal to the actual goal of this project. Do you think future generations will learn about the archive from archiveprogram.github.com?

Conceptual acid test: Go to https://archiveprogram.github.com https://archiveprogram.github.com, then disable all CSS. Observe: resultant web page is unusable.

hollerith 7y ago

How would I disable CSS in Chrome?

saagarjha 7y ago
I don't think you can without an extension.
arthurcolle 7y ago
In Chrome DevTools you could delete the link element that includes the stylesheet.
- hollerith 7y ago
  I was able to do that (so, thank you) but don't understand what great grandparent means by unusable. I prefer it to the version with CSS (which I gave up on after about 2 seconds before getting intrigued by great grandparent). The list of partners is not rendered; is that what qualifies it as unusable, great grandparent? (I am participating here solely out of curiosity about the web; am not trying to make any point or argue any position.)
  - stblack 7y ago
    The question is, will CSS and any other present-day tech be around in the medium-future? We know plain text will be around. I was surprised to find the website promoting this is tricked-out, which isn't consistent with very long-term vision of the project.
stblack 7y ago
At the risk of "OK Boomer" replies... Chris Pedrick's Web Developer Toolbar, an extension that was once the greatest thing, does this and many other useful and insightful things. My fave, I think, is Information -> View Document Outline, which is pivotal for gaming Google SEO, by telling you how your Heading tags semantically convey the page's story. https://chrispederick.com/work/web-developer/ https://chrispederick.com/work/web-developer/
dredmorbius 7y ago
Dev tools is the most accessible. uMatrix can disable CSS for any source, including 1st-order references. There are extensions which will disable CSS as well. Alternatively, you can view under a console mode browser (lynx, links, elinks, w3m, etc.), and see what appears.

sdinsn 7y ago

Solution: just don't disable CSS.

stblack 7y ago
Conceptually what, beyond plain text, is guaranteed to function in the far future? You can count on 2019-vintage CSS and JS to be completely unusable. So the acid test is, have the people implementing this really thought this through? Based on the web pages they are using, the answer appears to be, no.
- vimslayer 7y ago
  Plain text is not guaranteed to function in the far future.
  - dredmorbius 7y ago
    On a technical complexity scale, plain text is a hell of a lot less complex than CSS + JS + remote deps + whatever. Complexity is the enemy of reliability. A principle first stated in 1958 in The Economist. https://books.google.com/books?id=aDsiAQAAMAAJ&dq="complexity+is+the+enemy+of+reliability"+economist&focus=searchwithinvolume&q="complexity+is+the+enemy+of+reliability" https://books.google.com/books?id=aDsiAQAAMAAJ&dq="complexit...
- sdinsn 7y ago
  Fortunately for us, we're not viewing this page in the future, we're viewing it in the present!

liquidise 7y ago

Not sure if OP meant JS instead. When i disable JS in Firefox i get a dark grey page visibly lacking any content.

MauranKilom 7y ago

See the above comment tree: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21528446 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21528446 I would consider it pretty obvious that the permanence of usability/readability for archiveprogram.github.com is orthogonal to the actual goal of this project. Do you think future generations will learn about the archive from archiveprogram.github.com?