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Are you stating that any flooding and other symptoms of climate change are externalities of countries and corporations? Would the earth be static if there were

Are you stating that any flooding and other symptoms of climate change are externalities of countries and corporations? Would the earth be static if there were no countries or corporations?

wjnc 7y ago
Uhm, I would answer that as a Yes (but I think you would disagree). It'd be a subsistence level of existence for the several (tens of) millions of humans in existence in that scenario, but one with hardly any human impact on the global climate. The thought would be that massive specialisation led to our current level of (material) wealth and that both countries and corporations are signals of cooperation and thus facilite specialisation. Even if I think of something like a Nozickian world as a starter, with exchangeable money as a transaction facility for transferring information, I immediately think we would see the roaming "tribes" as something akin to corporations.
- the-dude 7y ago
  Sea level has been rising thousands, ten thousands of years : 6-8k yrs ago, I would be able to walk to the UK from NL. The North Sea was inhatibed : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland
  - eyko 7y ago
    The rate at which the sea levels rose was much slower and much of that water was frozen in the arctic. The past couple of centuries are exceptionally different.
    - kibwen 7y ago
      To that end, here's one of my favorite XKCDs ever, which is a long-form chart of Earth's average temperature for the past 22,000 years, including notes about the advancing and receding of ice and sea levels: https://xkcd.com/1732/ https://xkcd.com/1732/ It does a fabulous job of driving home the rate at which the current pace of warming exceeds geological norms.
    - the-dude 7y ago
      Would you care to back that up? If I DDG it https://duckduckgo.com/?q=historic+sea+level+rise&t=ffab&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=historic+sea+level+rise&t=ffab&ia=... I end up at https://skepticalscience.com/Past-150000-Years-of-Sea-Level-History-Suggests-High-Rates-of-Future-Sea-Level-Rise.html https://skepticalscience.com/Past-150000-Years-of-Sea-Level-... ( that's right ) : "During all episodes of major global ice loss, sea level rise has reached rates of at least 1.2 metres per century (equivalent to 12 mm per year). This is 4 times the current rate of sea level rise." Not relying on one opinion, I view the XKCD of the sibbling : no sources. Next hit on DDG : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_sea_level https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_sea_level : "Observational and modeling studies of mass loss from glaciers and ice caps indicate a contribution to a sea-level rise of 2 to 4 cm over the 20th century. " Which is very low. Would you care to back up your statement?
      - JshWright 7y ago
        > Not relying on one opinion, I view the XKCD of the sibbling : no sources. I'm having a hard time parsing that... Are you suggesting the XKCD graph lacks sources?
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- briantakita 7y ago
  Those Cambrian creatures, driving their SUVs caused CO2 to be over 15x what it is today. The Cambrian life impact, living beyond their means, exploding with massive specialization of genetic diversity, should be ashamed for their usage of Earth's resources.
DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
It would not be static, but the rate of change would be much slower than it is right now. Raising the level of atmospheric CO2 by over 50%, which humans have done in the past hundred years, increases the greenhouse effect enough to cause rapid warming and sea-level rise.
downvoted 7y ago
The changes in the weather patterns observed over the last few decades are more complex than just warmer temperatures, and it will be many decades before it is clear if climate change contributed to the intensifying storminess we're seeing. But the new research is a reminder that these extreme weather events are likely to increase in frequency and intensity as the planet warms, and that scientists need to keep an eye on that.

Are you stating that any flooding and other symptoms of climate change are externalities of countries and corporations? Would the earth be static if there were no countries or corporations?

wjnc 7y ago

Uhm, I would answer that as a Yes (but I think you would disagree). It'd be a subsistence level of existence for the several (tens of) millions of humans in existence in that scenario, but one with hardly any human impact on the global climate. The thought would be that massive specialisation led to our current level of (material) wealth and that both countries and corporations are signals of cooperation and thus facilite specialisation. Even if I think of something like a Nozickian world as a starter, with exchangeable money as a transaction facility for transferring information, I immediately think we would see the roaming "tribes" as something akin to corporations.

the-dude 7y ago
Sea level has been rising thousands, ten thousands of years : 6-8k yrs ago, I would be able to walk to the UK from NL. The North Sea was inhatibed : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland
- eyko 7y ago
  The rate at which the sea levels rose was much slower and much of that water was frozen in the arctic. The past couple of centuries are exceptionally different.
  - kibwen 7y ago
    To that end, here's one of my favorite XKCDs ever, which is a long-form chart of Earth's average temperature for the past 22,000 years, including notes about the advancing and receding of ice and sea levels: https://xkcd.com/1732/ https://xkcd.com/1732/ It does a fabulous job of driving home the rate at which the current pace of warming exceeds geological norms.
  - the-dude 7y ago
    Would you care to back that up? If I DDG it https://duckduckgo.com/?q=historic+sea+level+rise&t=ffab&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=historic+sea+level+rise&t=ffab&ia=... I end up at https://skepticalscience.com/Past-150000-Years-of-Sea-Level-History-Suggests-High-Rates-of-Future-Sea-Level-Rise.html https://skepticalscience.com/Past-150000-Years-of-Sea-Level-... ( that's right ) : "During all episodes of major global ice loss, sea level rise has reached rates of at least 1.2 metres per century (equivalent to 12 mm per year). This is 4 times the current rate of sea level rise." Not relying on one opinion, I view the XKCD of the sibbling : no sources. Next hit on DDG : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_sea_level https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_sea_level : "Observational and modeling studies of mass loss from glaciers and ice caps indicate a contribution to a sea-level rise of 2 to 4 cm over the 20th century. " Which is very low. Would you care to back up your statement?
    - JshWright 7y ago
      > Not relying on one opinion, I view the XKCD of the sibbling : no sources. I'm having a hard time parsing that... Are you suggesting the XKCD graph lacks sources?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
briantakita 7y ago
Those Cambrian creatures, driving their SUVs caused CO2 to be over 15x what it is today. The Cambrian life impact, living beyond their means, exploding with massive specialization of genetic diversity, should be ashamed for their usage of Earth's resources.

DiogenesKynikos 7y ago

It would not be static, but the rate of change would be much slower than it is right now. Raising the level of atmospheric CO2 by over 50%, which humans have done in the past hundred years, increases the greenhouse effect enough to cause rapid warming and sea-level rise.

downvoted 7y ago

The changes in the weather patterns observed over the last few decades are more complex than just warmer temperatures, and it will be many decades before it is clear if climate change contributed to the intensifying storminess we're seeing. But the new research is a reminder that these extreme weather events are likely to increase in frequency and intensity as the planet warms, and that scientists need to keep an eye on that.