3 ms·

Also, you want to present the same price to all customers.

by jolmg 7y ago

hombre_fatal 7y ago
Yeah, I don't know why you'd do what they're prescribing. It's just misleading and seems more like a dark pattern. As if "free shipping" will manipulate them to make the purchase. People already understand the price of an object vs the cost of sending that object somewhere in the world. Everyone understands $100 shoes with a shipping fee, not $105-$130 shoes that shape-shift depending on where the person lives that opens the link.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 7y ago
  But seeing $100 shoes then seeing $5 shipping fees tacked on separately will make people feel cheated, and abandon the purchase. They made a decision to spend $100, and now you're trying to make them make another decision to spend $105 instead. Disclosing the shipping fees up front helps a bit, but not completely.
  - hombre_fatal 7y ago
    That's what I'm saying. I don't think people feel cheated seeing $100 + $5 S/H. I mean, speak for yourself: do you really feel cheated by the transparency? And if people do feel cheated (I'm unconvinced), I still don't believe they need to be manipulated into thinking that shipping doesn't have cost. These kinds of reality-distortion practices are all too common in tech and ecommerce. It's like Verizon manipulating people into thinking they get a "free iPhone" when they sign a 2-year contract. It's 100% misleading. If people are surprised by shipping fees, it's only because this misleading practice is widespread and we're racing to the bottom on dark patterns. All the more reason to be principled, imo.
    - tgsovlerkhgsel 7y ago
      I understand what you're saying, but it doesn't change that seeing additional fees after an initial decision seriously puts me off. Note that I'm from Europe, i.e. if the sticker on the shelf says something is 5.99, it's 5.99, not 6.47. I also often do feel cheated because the shipping fees often match or exceed non-discounted consumer postage fees, and many stores just use it to advertise deceptively low prices. The argument here is "handling cost", but a grocery store also has handling costs - and how would you feel if a "check-out fee" was added at the end? When I'm on a shopping site to buy an individual item, I want to know "how much do I have to pay to have this item in my hand". I don't care if you charge $5 for the item and $10 for shipping, or $15 with free shipping. If the shipping fee is clearly advertised (i.e. in legible, discoverable font right next to the price) and is reasonable, it's one thing. But patterns I often see and always hate: - ridiculous shipping fees used to advertise lower prices than others when the actual price is higher (sucks if the platform you're using sorts by price, not total cost - like Amazon does!) - charging 9.99 for shipping for something that comes in a barely padded envelope with 1.50 worth of postage on it - shipping costs well hidden, so you have to spend time before you know what the actual price you'll pay is I consider "free shipping" not "manipulating me into thinking that shipping doesn't have cost". I consider it a promise that what I see is what I pay (i.e. I consider that transparency). Without it, if you see $19.99 on a web site, it could mean $19.99, or $39.98, and you often can't easily tell.
      - bluGill 7y ago
        I find the best deals are where shipping is separate. With free shipping I have to pay for the rare person in remote areas (Alaska...) who costs a lot more to ship to. By separating shipping my costs are much less. The above applies ONLY when the shipping charge is the actual shipping charge. All the big shippers make it easy to figure out what shipping a package will cost so you should know when I click add to cart what the costs are. (As a bonus it would be nice if you would tell me which item in my cart costs so much to ship - some things are worth buying locally because retail can use cheaper shipping to the store)
    - Koremat6666 7y ago
      I have far too many abandoned carts because of shipment charges. Do I feel cheated ? No but I was not willing to pay the shipment charges even though I was willing to pay for the product. Amazon solves this problem pretty well.
    - bambax 7y ago
      I prefer to pay 120 with free shipping than 100 + 15 for shipping. Not just me: most people. This has been tested repeatedly. Yet, it seems so irrational that retailers don't believe it. But it's true!! And Amazon wins because of this.
  - jolmg 7y ago
    Wouldn't they feel more cheated if they find out that the price given to them is, with no justification, more costly than the price given to friends and family in other locations?
- logfromblammo 7y ago
  You can certainly present the same price of the good to every user, while also automatically calculating the cost to ship to their postal code--if they specify it, or the postal code most likely for their IP address if not. Then apply a "combined shipping discount" calculation when they go to view the contents of their shopping cart, for everything that can fit in a single box shipped from a single warehouse. Then allow the user to sort on base retail price or price plus shipping, as they prefer. Being transparent about goods versus shipping makes the customer feel better about not getting manipulated and/or ripped off.
- gangstead 7y ago
  My problem is that for a lot of small sites, especially auto parts in my experience, will have an outsized shipping cost that totally ruins the deal. One example I found recently was a couple of small brake light bulbs. $4.13 plus $14 shipping from a parts dealer or $5.75 plus free shipping from Amazon. Initially you think the price is great, it's cheaper than Amazon! Then you find out they have a hard time sourcing padded envelopes.

Also, you want to present the same price to all customers.

by jolmg 7y ago

Also, you want to present the same price to all customers.

Yeah, I don't know why you'd do what they're prescribing. It's just misleading and seems more like a dark pattern. As if "free shipping" will manipulate them to make the purchase. People already understand the price of an object vs the cost of sending that object somewhere in the world. Everyone understands $100 shoes with a shipping fee, not $105-$130 shoes that shape-shift depending on where the person lives that opens the link.

tgsovlerkhgsel 7y ago
But seeing $100 shoes then seeing $5 shipping fees tacked on separately will make people feel cheated, and abandon the purchase. They made a decision to spend $100, and now you're trying to make them make another decision to spend $105 instead. Disclosing the shipping fees up front helps a bit, but not completely.
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  That's what I'm saying. I don't think people feel cheated seeing $100 + $5 S/H. I mean, speak for yourself: do you really feel cheated by the transparency? And if people do feel cheated (I'm unconvinced), I still don't believe they need to be manipulated into thinking that shipping doesn't have cost. These kinds of reality-distortion practices are all too common in tech and ecommerce. It's like Verizon manipulating people into thinking they get a "free iPhone" when they sign a 2-year contract. It's 100% misleading. If people are surprised by shipping fees, it's only because this misleading practice is widespread and we're racing to the bottom on dark patterns. All the more reason to be principled, imo.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 7y ago
    I understand what you're saying, but it doesn't change that seeing additional fees after an initial decision seriously puts me off. Note that I'm from Europe, i.e. if the sticker on the shelf says something is 5.99, it's 5.99, not 6.47. I also often do feel cheated because the shipping fees often match or exceed non-discounted consumer postage fees, and many stores just use it to advertise deceptively low prices. The argument here is "handling cost", but a grocery store also has handling costs - and how would you feel if a "check-out fee" was added at the end? When I'm on a shopping site to buy an individual item, I want to know "how much do I have to pay to have this item in my hand". I don't care if you charge $5 for the item and $10 for shipping, or $15 with free shipping. If the shipping fee is clearly advertised (i.e. in legible, discoverable font right next to the price) and is reasonable, it's one thing. But patterns I often see and always hate: - ridiculous shipping fees used to advertise lower prices than others when the actual price is higher (sucks if the platform you're using sorts by price, not total cost - like Amazon does!) - charging 9.99 for shipping for something that comes in a barely padded envelope with 1.50 worth of postage on it - shipping costs well hidden, so you have to spend time before you know what the actual price you'll pay is I consider "free shipping" not "manipulating me into thinking that shipping doesn't have cost". I consider it a promise that what I see is what I pay (i.e. I consider that transparency). Without it, if you see $19.99 on a web site, it could mean $19.99, or $39.98, and you often can't easily tell.
    - bluGill 7y ago
      I find the best deals are where shipping is separate. With free shipping I have to pay for the rare person in remote areas (Alaska...) who costs a lot more to ship to. By separating shipping my costs are much less. The above applies ONLY when the shipping charge is the actual shipping charge. All the big shippers make it easy to figure out what shipping a package will cost so you should know when I click add to cart what the costs are. (As a bonus it would be nice if you would tell me which item in my cart costs so much to ship - some things are worth buying locally because retail can use cheaper shipping to the store)
  - Koremat6666 7y ago
    I have far too many abandoned carts because of shipment charges. Do I feel cheated ? No but I was not willing to pay the shipment charges even though I was willing to pay for the product. Amazon solves this problem pretty well.
  - bambax 7y ago
    I prefer to pay 120 with free shipping than 100 + 15 for shipping. Not just me: most people. This has been tested repeatedly. Yet, it seems so irrational that retailers don't believe it. But it's true!! And Amazon wins because of this.
- jolmg 7y ago
  Wouldn't they feel more cheated if they find out that the price given to them is, with no justification, more costly than the price given to friends and family in other locations?
logfromblammo 7y ago
You can certainly present the same price of the good to every user, while also automatically calculating the cost to ship to their postal code--if they specify it, or the postal code most likely for their IP address if not. Then apply a "combined shipping discount" calculation when they go to view the contents of their shopping cart, for everything that can fit in a single box shipped from a single warehouse. Then allow the user to sort on base retail price or price plus shipping, as they prefer. Being transparent about goods versus shipping makes the customer feel better about not getting manipulated and/or ripped off.
gangstead 7y ago
My problem is that for a lot of small sites, especially auto parts in my experience, will have an outsized shipping cost that totally ruins the deal. One example I found recently was a couple of small brake light bulbs. $4.13 plus $14 shipping from a parts dealer or $5.75 plus free shipping from Amazon. Initially you think the price is great, it's cheaper than Amazon! Then you find out they have a hard time sourcing padded envelopes.