3 ms·

Are you arguing that the NYPD in its entirety adds no value to quality of life in NYC? New York city has been home to organized crime in the form of the mafia

by wpasc 7y ago

Are you arguing that the NYPD in its entirety adds no value to quality of life in NYC? New York city has been home to organized crime in the form of the mafia and gangs, boasted a huge murder rate in the middle of the 20th century, and is the frequent target of terror threats (literally the stated target of terror groups in their own words). Yet, the NYPD adds no value?

Clubber 7y ago
I would argue their value is highly inflated but that would go for any police department. The FOP is a very powerful national union who works in their own interest. Their power comes from their membership count, so it's in their interest to keep the numbers (both headcount, salaries and pension) growing indefinitely. Someone hacked and released the FOP contracts a few years ago. I took a look at the contract for my medium sized city. 10 years on the force yields officers over $100K, plus pension. It's a pretty good gig, but I'm not sure it's worth the cost. https://www.cyberdefensemagazine.com/a-fop-data-dump-leaked-online-2-5gb-of-police-contracts-and-data/ https://www.cyberdefensemagazine.com/a-fop-data-dump-leaked-... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/07/leaked-police-files-contain-guarantees-disciplinary-records-will-be-kept-secret https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/07/leaked-polic...
jimmaswell 7y ago
I've frequently heard mafia-run areas were much nicer to live in.
- chachachoney 7y ago
  >> I've frequently heard mafia-run areas were much nicer to live in. Provided you weren't a minority.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
jrockway 7y ago
I think the drop in crime is more due to people not being interested in committing crimes, rather than some amazing work by the NYPD. You also have to look at external factors. People don't rob other people of their iPhones anymore because of the cloud bricking functionality. They have no resale value without the passcode.
chachachoney 7y ago
>> New York city has been home to organized crime in the form of the mafia and gangs, boasted a huge murder rate in the middle of the 20th century, and is the frequent target of terror threats (literally the stated target of terror groups in their own words). The FBI was responsible for taking care of the last generation of organized crime in NY, not the NYPD, precisely because of internal corruption issues. https://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/11/nyregion/detectives-used-badges-to-kill-for-the-mob-indictments-say.html https://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/11/nyregion/detectives-used-...
sjg007 7y ago
In 2017 when the NYPD reduced proactive policing the number of major crime reports dropped as well. That suggests that it is the NYPD that is creating "major" crime issues out of molehills.
- candiodari 7y ago
  This is a recurring story. Crime goes up and down with the economy. Bad economy? More crime. Great economy? Less crime. And yet everytime we're 5 years or so in a boom "prevention" becomes "important", and of course the lesser offences (like small drug offences) become important. Exactly when crime is close to the lowest level it'll be that decade. This is very hard to explain, except of course when seen in the lens of "we must provide jobs for government workers". The same is true for things like juvenile justice. More kids than ever locked up. And yet ... less abuse than ever, less youth crime than ever before. What these systems are for, I don't know. But their numbers make it pretty clear what they're not for. They're not for protecting anyone in society.

by wpasc 7y ago

Clubber 7y ago

I would argue their value is highly inflated but that would go for any police department. The FOP is a very powerful national union who works in their own interest. Their power comes from their membership count, so it's in their interest to keep the numbers (both headcount, salaries and pension) growing indefinitely. Someone hacked and released the FOP contracts a few years ago. I took a look at the contract for my medium sized city. 10 years on the force yields officers over $100K, plus pension. It's a pretty good gig, but I'm not sure it's worth the cost. https://www.cyberdefensemagazine.com/a-fop-data-dump-leaked-online-2-5gb-of-police-contracts-and-data/ https://www.cyberdefensemagazine.com/a-fop-data-dump-leaked-... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/07/leaked-police-files-contain-guarantees-disciplinary-records-will-be-kept-secret https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/07/leaked-polic...

jimmaswell 7y ago

I've frequently heard mafia-run areas were much nicer to live in.

chachachoney 7y ago
>> I've frequently heard mafia-run areas were much nicer to live in. Provided you weren't a minority.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

jrockway 7y ago

I think the drop in crime is more due to people not being interested in committing crimes, rather than some amazing work by the NYPD. You also have to look at external factors. People don't rob other people of their iPhones anymore because of the cloud bricking functionality. They have no resale value without the passcode.

chachachoney 7y ago

>> New York city has been home to organized crime in the form of the mafia and gangs, boasted a huge murder rate in the middle of the 20th century, and is the frequent target of terror threats (literally the stated target of terror groups in their own words). The FBI was responsible for taking care of the last generation of organized crime in NY, not the NYPD, precisely because of internal corruption issues. https://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/11/nyregion/detectives-used-badges-to-kill-for-the-mob-indictments-say.html https://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/11/nyregion/detectives-used-...

sjg007 7y ago

In 2017 when the NYPD reduced proactive policing the number of major crime reports dropped as well. That suggests that it is the NYPD that is creating "major" crime issues out of molehills.

candiodari 7y ago
This is a recurring story. Crime goes up and down with the economy. Bad economy? More crime. Great economy? Less crime. And yet everytime we're 5 years or so in a boom "prevention" becomes "important", and of course the lesser offences (like small drug offences) become important. Exactly when crime is close to the lowest level it'll be that decade. This is very hard to explain, except of course when seen in the lens of "we must provide jobs for government workers". The same is true for things like juvenile justice. More kids than ever locked up. And yet ... less abuse than ever, less youth crime than ever before. What these systems are for, I don't know. But their numbers make it pretty clear what they're not for. They're not for protecting anyone in society.