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> making judgments about the parent's values is a bit out of line. Some people really do just want to go to the office, put in a full day of work, and go home w

> making judgments about the parent's values is a bit out of line. Some people really do just want to go to the office, put in a full day of work, and go home where their "real" life happens. My impression, from working in one of these progressive workplaces, is that nobody is forced to interject or defend their personal opinions, or be a part of those discussions at all. Indeed, just as we have employees bringing the latest from the social justice circus to work, we also have employees who sit it out entirely. We even have a dedicated #activism slack channel, which is obviously opt-in. So when I see complaints like the parents, my impression is the true feelings are "I want to disagree and say X but my coworkers will think I'm a bad person." Obviously, the coworkers will only think you're a bad person if you're disagreeing with them on a strongly held, deeply personal value, hence my example of LGBT rights. There are a such thing as bad opinions. If I share bad opinions, people will think I'm a bad person. Every person's conception of bad opinions is a little different - For example, most people here agree that mass surveillance and censorship is bad, but only some people here feel that deporting DACA immigrants is bad. Thus, I concluded the parent probably just holds vastly different values from his or her more vocal coworkers. There's nothing wrong with having different values, in fact it's quite normal. I don't know why else parent would be concerned with being labelled a bad person.

DoofusOfDeath 7y ago
I too work in one of these "progressive" workplaces. On political / social matters, I sometimes have an opinion that differs from the one that the company (very vocally) advertises. People holding the majority view are publicly cheered by the company, but people holding minority views are (at best) tolerated. This frustrates me on several levels: - There's no room for debate on these topics. The official company position is treated as so obviously correct that a reasoned debate on the matters is treated as unnecessary, or even worse, immoral. I find this insulting. - The company / majority position seems to be self-contradictory. E.g., they promote LGBTQ behavior as praiseworthy, which implies that certain religions' teachings about sexual ethics are factually incorrect. But the company also claims to respect people's religious choices. These leave me with the impression that the employer is hypocritical and/or disingenuous.
- helen___keller 7y ago
  > People holding the majority view are publicly cheered by the company, but people holding minority views are (at best) tolerated May I have a specific example? There appears to be a lot of negative opinions about this kind of workplace based on the comments (and my downvotes on some of my comments haha). I'm just trying to understand it. If you're curious, you can see a specific example from my workplace in the edit region here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21524930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21524930 I've never personally had a bad experience from being in a "progressive" workplace. I don't agree with them on everything, but in general I've never had a bad experience. The "social justice" aspect is pretty opt-in, so I don't know what could lead to a negative experience such as being less than tolerated. > The company / majority position seems to be self-contradictory. E.g., they promote LGBTQ behavior as praiseworthy, which implies that certain religions' teachings about sexual ethics are factually incorrect. But the company also claims to respect people's religious choices. I don't really see the contradiction. My work celebrates employees by giving us catered lunches that often include pork but nobody perceives that as being anti-muslim, as long as there are non-pork choices. The vegetarians and vegans don't mind meat on the table as long as there are vegetarian and vegan choices. A subset of teachings from a subset of Christian faiths will say something like "[homosexuality] is an abomination". It would be disrespectful to employee's religion (and common sense) for the employer to tell their employees they must be homosexual. It is not disrespectful for the employer to celebrate other employees who are homosexual. Am I misunderstanding?
  - DoofusOfDeath 7y ago
    Thanks for the substantive discussion! > May I have a specific example? I can't without giving out too much detail. I shouldn't have stated that without being able to provide substance, sorry. > It is not disrespectful for the employer to celebrate other employees who are homosexual. Am I misunderstanding? I think we're getting close to the fundamental issue here. Let me unpack my logic a bit: 1) Celebrating behavior X implies that X is in some way virtuous. 2) To claim that X is virtuous, is to claim that any belief system S which states X is not virtuous is in error. So I see the current discussion as having the structure shown above, with: X = partaking in a homosexual relationship, and S = the theologies of various Christian, Muslim, and Jewish sects. So in short, it seems to me that employers are logically implying that certain employees have false religious beliefs, but the employers are hiding behind the fact that the their implication isn't clearly stated. I think that's inconsistent with the employers' claims to respect employees' religious views.

DoofusOfDeath 7y ago

I too work in one of these "progressive" workplaces. On political / social matters, I sometimes have an opinion that differs from the one that the company (very vocally) advertises. People holding the majority view are publicly cheered by the company, but people holding minority views are (at best) tolerated. This frustrates me on several levels: - There's no room for debate on these topics. The official company position is treated as so obviously correct that a reasoned debate on the matters is treated as unnecessary, or even worse, immoral. I find this insulting. - The company / majority position seems to be self-contradictory. E.g., they promote LGBTQ behavior as praiseworthy, which implies that certain religions' teachings about sexual ethics are factually incorrect. But the company also claims to respect people's religious choices. These leave me with the impression that the employer is hypocritical and/or disingenuous.

helen___keller 7y ago
> People holding the majority view are publicly cheered by the company, but people holding minority views are (at best) tolerated May I have a specific example? There appears to be a lot of negative opinions about this kind of workplace based on the comments (and my downvotes on some of my comments haha). I'm just trying to understand it. If you're curious, you can see a specific example from my workplace in the edit region here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21524930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21524930 I've never personally had a bad experience from being in a "progressive" workplace. I don't agree with them on everything, but in general I've never had a bad experience. The "social justice" aspect is pretty opt-in, so I don't know what could lead to a negative experience such as being less than tolerated. > The company / majority position seems to be self-contradictory. E.g., they promote LGBTQ behavior as praiseworthy, which implies that certain religions' teachings about sexual ethics are factually incorrect. But the company also claims to respect people's religious choices. I don't really see the contradiction. My work celebrates employees by giving us catered lunches that often include pork but nobody perceives that as being anti-muslim, as long as there are non-pork choices. The vegetarians and vegans don't mind meat on the table as long as there are vegetarian and vegan choices. A subset of teachings from a subset of Christian faiths will say something like "[homosexuality] is an abomination". It would be disrespectful to employee's religion (and common sense) for the employer to tell their employees they must be homosexual. It is not disrespectful for the employer to celebrate other employees who are homosexual. Am I misunderstanding?
- DoofusOfDeath 7y ago
  Thanks for the substantive discussion! > May I have a specific example? I can't without giving out too much detail. I shouldn't have stated that without being able to provide substance, sorry. > It is not disrespectful for the employer to celebrate other employees who are homosexual. Am I misunderstanding? I think we're getting close to the fundamental issue here. Let me unpack my logic a bit: 1) Celebrating behavior X implies that X is in some way virtuous. 2) To claim that X is virtuous, is to claim that any belief system S which states X is not virtuous is in error. So I see the current discussion as having the structure shown above, with: X = partaking in a homosexual relationship, and S = the theologies of various Christian, Muslim, and Jewish sects. So in short, it seems to me that employers are logically implying that certain employees have false religious beliefs, but the employers are hiding behind the fact that the their implication isn't clearly stated. I think that's inconsistent with the employers' claims to respect employees' religious views.