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This tweet has been doing the rounds the last couple days too: https://twitter.com/StretchArmy/status/1193925862569193472 https://twitter.com/StretchArmy/statu

This tweet has been doing the rounds the last couple days too: https://twitter.com/StretchArmy/status/1193925862569193472 https://twitter.com/StretchArmy/status/1193925862569193472 There honestly seems to be no actual value in maintaining the NYPD force, only cost after cost. It was even demonstrated pretty clearly that they were unnecessary when they went on strike and the city kept going just fine. Why do we give these bullies so much power at such cost when we get nothing in return?

tibbon 7y ago
Arrest them all. And by them, I mean the NYPD. They are a menace to the public safety and peace, and they should all be on trial for misconduct, or being complicit in misconduct. Everyone who has participated and not worked to change that system is guilty.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  I don't understand how with all the email evidence there should be, how is it not possible to find and prosecute the person(s) responsible for ordering an illegal act by the government.
  - La1n 7y ago
    It would be possible, but the police is not know for cooperating in investigations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_wall_of_silence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_wall_of_silence
  - snagglegaggle 7y ago
    So, technically, the government can't do illegal things. People working for the government do illegal things, and as they are functioning outside of their commission when they commit those crimes, they are not covered by sovereign immunity. This is important to note as it makes it easy to diffuse responsibility for an act. The courts have more or less made it so that you must prove someone knew an act was outside of their commission and knew the act was illegal to get anywhere.
- pricees 7y ago
  This isn't meant to be trolling but: why would they follow the law? No one is playing by the rules and no one is being punished. Not the politicians, not the government agencies, not the banks, not big tech, not big pharma, not the schools/teachers, not the cops, not the military. No one is being held to any kind of standard.... Luckily they make up for all of this by unfairly punishing individual citizens....without connections and who can't afford a good lawyer.
  - delfinom 7y ago
    Not to mention, alot of energy is spent demonizing other countries for corruption meanwhile we have plenty of it here. Convince the citizens that everything is great here.
    - fhood 7y ago
      New York is a special case, but one that makes me concerned about the long term viability of large cities. I would guess that NYC's corruption issues have to do with scale and wealth comparable to many states or even countries, but very little outside scrutiny compared to what most states receive.
  - hanniabu 7y ago
    The day that public awareness/perception meets current affairs will result in a very interesting time in US history.
- turc1656 7y ago
  "Everyone who has participated and not worked to change that system is guilty." Exactly. This is my mentality and has been for years. People like to complain about the "few bad apples" that make everyone look bad. Yeah, I'll acknowledge up front that overall in the country the majority of officers probably do their job fairly well and try to obey the rules and not violate people's rights. But my real problem is that their coworkers don't do shit about it when they know those people violate the law. They don't speak up. They don't stop them. They don't want to testify or offer up any evidence. And yet how many times have we seen these big public cases where the officer in question has a history of complaints and disciplinary action against them? The difference between me and my coworkers and the police is that neither I nor anyone I work with has sworn an oath to uphold the law. So I'm not legally obligated to turn anyone in or do anything if I find out someone is breaking the law. But they are. And not only do they not do their job in that regard, they actively try to protect those people. And then they turn around and claim that the public is against them and that there is all this "us vs them" tribalism. Of course there is - they've made it that way. Do they honestly think that the general populace changed their view of the police of the past 50 years at random? A personal anecdote. I got pulled over around 2 years ago for having a headlight out. Fair enough. But the officer proceeded to make up some bullshit about how I took too long to pull over, which was nonsense. I took 20 seconds to turn over (I went back and timed it) and that was because it was a one lane road with no shoulder - I pulled into a strip mall just up the block that I knew so we didn't block the street. He used that to then claim I used that time to hide something under my seat and suspected me of drug possession. Ordered me out of the car and tried to get me to let him search the car. I refused to grant permission. He said if I didn't give it to him he'd be "forced" to call the dogs and we'd have to wait around 40 minutes because they were far away. I didn't change my tune. We waited. The officer quietly talks to the dog's handler when they show up, deliberately away from me so I can't hear him and then the dog magically indicates/hits on my driver door. Which is interesting since I don't use drugs and only my immediate family has ever been in that vehicle and none of them use drugs. They toss the car and by now I'm both irate and afraid that they might plant drugs since this is clearly bullshit. I start to tell them how I know there's no drugs in the car and it's really interesting that the dog hit on the car considering I know for a fact that there are no drugs there and they will soon find out the same. I also openly and politely ponder what a lawyer might say about them forcing me to wait 40 minutes for dogs to show up since this was after the latest ruling from the supreme court about how long reasonable stops can be for things like that. I see one of them start to think things through and realize I don't actually have drugs in the car. The search completes and they don't find anything. But they also never cite me for the headlight being out and send me on my merry way 75 minutes after being pulled over. Now the real kicker - a friend of mine is in a relationship with a state trooper. I relayed this story to him and he flat out said he would have searched my car as well. When I asked why he said "you are a white male and you were traveling in the direction of a mostly minority town with drug problems (the next town over from where I was). They probably figured you were either going there to buy or you are a seller." To which I responded, "how the hell could they conclude that since I live like 3 minutes from where they pulled me over and I was going home?" And he just said that it wouldn't have matter to him either and he would have searched my car as well.
wpasc 7y ago
Are you arguing that the NYPD in its entirety adds no value to quality of life in NYC? New York city has been home to organized crime in the form of the mafia and gangs, boasted a huge murder rate in the middle of the 20th century, and is the frequent target of terror threats (literally the stated target of terror groups in their own words). Yet, the NYPD adds no value?
- Clubber 7y ago
  I would argue their value is highly inflated but that would go for any police department. The FOP is a very powerful national union who works in their own interest. Their power comes from their membership count, so it's in their interest to keep the numbers (both headcount, salaries and pension) growing indefinitely. Someone hacked and released the FOP contracts a few years ago. I took a look at the contract for my medium sized city. 10 years on the force yields officers over $100K, plus pension. It's a pretty good gig, but I'm not sure it's worth the cost. https://www.cyberdefensemagazine.com/a-fop-data-dump-leaked-online-2-5gb-of-police-contracts-and-data/ https://www.cyberdefensemagazine.com/a-fop-data-dump-leaked-... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/07/leaked-police-files-contain-guarantees-disciplinary-records-will-be-kept-secret https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/07/leaked-polic...
- jimmaswell 7y ago
  I've frequently heard mafia-run areas were much nicer to live in.
  - chachachoney 7y ago
    >> I've frequently heard mafia-run areas were much nicer to live in. Provided you weren't a minority.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- jrockway 7y ago
  I think the drop in crime is more due to people not being interested in committing crimes, rather than some amazing work by the NYPD. You also have to look at external factors. People don't rob other people of their iPhones anymore because of the cloud bricking functionality. They have no resale value without the passcode.
swebs 7y ago
So who responded to emergencies during the strike? The state police, or did they have a contingency of NYPD still working?
- koenigdavidmj 7y ago
  They all reported to work and responded to real crimes. They just didn’t enforce the stupid laws that only exist to bring the city money.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    I find it absolutely hilarious in a sad way that cops striking in a manner designed to undermine the government results in them acting in ways that benefit the citizenry. Too bad they don't go on strike more often.
FireBeyond 7y ago
Over the last ten years, NYC has averaged $1MM PER WEEK in payouts for abuse of power/force compensation. It's mind blowing.
Aloha 7y ago
What do you replace them with?
- logfromblammo 7y ago
  A force that is bound by law to uphold Peelian Principles, and with a positive legal duty to assist persons in peril, to be prioritized over apprehending those who may be found breaking the laws or causing public nuisance.

tibbon 7y ago

Arrest them all. And by them, I mean the NYPD. They are a menace to the public safety and peace, and they should all be on trial for misconduct, or being complicit in misconduct. Everyone who has participated and not worked to change that system is guilty.

lotsofpulp 7y ago
I don't understand how with all the email evidence there should be, how is it not possible to find and prosecute the person(s) responsible for ordering an illegal act by the government.
- La1n 7y ago
  It would be possible, but the police is not know for cooperating in investigations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_wall_of_silence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_wall_of_silence
- snagglegaggle 7y ago
  So, technically, the government can't do illegal things. People working for the government do illegal things, and as they are functioning outside of their commission when they commit those crimes, they are not covered by sovereign immunity. This is important to note as it makes it easy to diffuse responsibility for an act. The courts have more or less made it so that you must prove someone knew an act was outside of their commission and knew the act was illegal to get anywhere.
pricees 7y ago
This isn't meant to be trolling but: why would they follow the law? No one is playing by the rules and no one is being punished. Not the politicians, not the government agencies, not the banks, not big tech, not big pharma, not the schools/teachers, not the cops, not the military. No one is being held to any kind of standard.... Luckily they make up for all of this by unfairly punishing individual citizens....without connections and who can't afford a good lawyer.
- delfinom 7y ago
  Not to mention, alot of energy is spent demonizing other countries for corruption meanwhile we have plenty of it here. Convince the citizens that everything is great here.
  - fhood 7y ago
    New York is a special case, but one that makes me concerned about the long term viability of large cities. I would guess that NYC's corruption issues have to do with scale and wealth comparable to many states or even countries, but very little outside scrutiny compared to what most states receive.
- hanniabu 7y ago
  The day that public awareness/perception meets current affairs will result in a very interesting time in US history.
turc1656 7y ago
"Everyone who has participated and not worked to change that system is guilty." Exactly. This is my mentality and has been for years. People like to complain about the "few bad apples" that make everyone look bad. Yeah, I'll acknowledge up front that overall in the country the majority of officers probably do their job fairly well and try to obey the rules and not violate people's rights. But my real problem is that their coworkers don't do shit about it when they know those people violate the law. They don't speak up. They don't stop them. They don't want to testify or offer up any evidence. And yet how many times have we seen these big public cases where the officer in question has a history of complaints and disciplinary action against them? The difference between me and my coworkers and the police is that neither I nor anyone I work with has sworn an oath to uphold the law. So I'm not legally obligated to turn anyone in or do anything if I find out someone is breaking the law. But they are. And not only do they not do their job in that regard, they actively try to protect those people. And then they turn around and claim that the public is against them and that there is all this "us vs them" tribalism. Of course there is - they've made it that way. Do they honestly think that the general populace changed their view of the police of the past 50 years at random? A personal anecdote. I got pulled over around 2 years ago for having a headlight out. Fair enough. But the officer proceeded to make up some bullshit about how I took too long to pull over, which was nonsense. I took 20 seconds to turn over (I went back and timed it) and that was because it was a one lane road with no shoulder - I pulled into a strip mall just up the block that I knew so we didn't block the street. He used that to then claim I used that time to hide something under my seat and suspected me of drug possession. Ordered me out of the car and tried to get me to let him search the car. I refused to grant permission. He said if I didn't give it to him he'd be "forced" to call the dogs and we'd have to wait around 40 minutes because they were far away. I didn't change my tune. We waited. The officer quietly talks to the dog's handler when they show up, deliberately away from me so I can't hear him and then the dog magically indicates/hits on my driver door. Which is interesting since I don't use drugs and only my immediate family has ever been in that vehicle and none of them use drugs. They toss the car and by now I'm both irate and afraid that they might plant drugs since this is clearly bullshit. I start to tell them how I know there's no drugs in the car and it's really interesting that the dog hit on the car considering I know for a fact that there are no drugs there and they will soon find out the same. I also openly and politely ponder what a lawyer might say about them forcing me to wait 40 minutes for dogs to show up since this was after the latest ruling from the supreme court about how long reasonable stops can be for things like that. I see one of them start to think things through and realize I don't actually have drugs in the car. The search completes and they don't find anything. But they also never cite me for the headlight being out and send me on my merry way 75 minutes after being pulled over. Now the real kicker - a friend of mine is in a relationship with a state trooper. I relayed this story to him and he flat out said he would have searched my car as well. When I asked why he said "you are a white male and you were traveling in the direction of a mostly minority town with drug problems (the next town over from where I was). They probably figured you were either going there to buy or you are a seller." To which I responded, "how the hell could they conclude that since I live like 3 minutes from where they pulled me over and I was going home?" And he just said that it wouldn't have matter to him either and he would have searched my car as well.

wpasc 7y ago

Are you arguing that the NYPD in its entirety adds no value to quality of life in NYC? New York city has been home to organized crime in the form of the mafia and gangs, boasted a huge murder rate in the middle of the 20th century, and is the frequent target of terror threats (literally the stated target of terror groups in their own words). Yet, the NYPD adds no value?

Clubber 7y ago
I would argue their value is highly inflated but that would go for any police department. The FOP is a very powerful national union who works in their own interest. Their power comes from their membership count, so it's in their interest to keep the numbers (both headcount, salaries and pension) growing indefinitely. Someone hacked and released the FOP contracts a few years ago. I took a look at the contract for my medium sized city. 10 years on the force yields officers over $100K, plus pension. It's a pretty good gig, but I'm not sure it's worth the cost. https://www.cyberdefensemagazine.com/a-fop-data-dump-leaked-online-2-5gb-of-police-contracts-and-data/ https://www.cyberdefensemagazine.com/a-fop-data-dump-leaked-... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/07/leaked-police-files-contain-guarantees-disciplinary-records-will-be-kept-secret https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/07/leaked-polic...
jimmaswell 7y ago
I've frequently heard mafia-run areas were much nicer to live in.
- chachachoney 7y ago
  >> I've frequently heard mafia-run areas were much nicer to live in. Provided you weren't a minority.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
jrockway 7y ago
I think the drop in crime is more due to people not being interested in committing crimes, rather than some amazing work by the NYPD. You also have to look at external factors. People don't rob other people of their iPhones anymore because of the cloud bricking functionality. They have no resale value without the passcode.

swebs 7y ago

So who responded to emergencies during the strike? The state police, or did they have a contingency of NYPD still working?

koenigdavidmj 7y ago
They all reported to work and responded to real crimes. They just didn’t enforce the stupid laws that only exist to bring the city money.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  I find it absolutely hilarious in a sad way that cops striking in a manner designed to undermine the government results in them acting in ways that benefit the citizenry. Too bad they don't go on strike more often.

FireBeyond 7y ago

Over the last ten years, NYC has averaged $1MM PER WEEK in payouts for abuse of power/force compensation. It's mind blowing.

Aloha 7y ago

What do you replace them with?

logfromblammo 7y ago
A force that is bound by law to uphold Peelian Principles, and with a positive legal duty to assist persons in peril, to be prioritized over apprehending those who may be found breaking the laws or causing public nuisance.