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This is not a master plan. This is not The Perl Foundation. This site and these people do not speak for the Perl community or its core developers. The whole si

This is not a master plan. This is not The Perl Foundation. This site and these people do not speak for the Perl community or its core developers. The whole site is run by Will Braswell, the creator and maintainer of RPerl, and Reini Urban, the creator and maintainer of CPerl. Both are increasingly troublesome to the Perl community. Rather than apologizing and reintegrating to the community, they've decided to start their own separate community where they are the leaders without disclosing the fact that they are speaking for this new, separate party.

snapdangle 7y ago
Thank you for raising this very significant detail to the comment section!
- bloke_zero 7y ago
  It reads like a spoof, like if Paul McCartney wrote a manifesto for why he should be considered the cutting edge of rock.
jjcc 7y ago
Thanks. I strongly suggest constructive competition which will benefit all of us. In addition to that, I also suggest that somebody can have a high order review of how the dispute evolved so a better protocol can eventually developed to make an eco-system healthier. Or even more, study the weakness of human nature so a more efficient cooperative system can be created by promoting awareness of troublesome behaviors/features.
- mst 7y ago
  There was a half decade of attempts at turning this into constructive competition with cross-pollination, mostly conducted quietly between principals to maximise the chances of it working out usefully. None of said attempts worked out, as you can see.
mst 7y ago
Let me confirm this, except more so. Will and Reini have effectively been cut out of the main line perl community for repeatedly being assholes to anybody who dared to disagree with them about anything (and I mean being assholes by my standards, which I hope at least some readers will recognise as a rather high bar to clear). When the website was first created there was a ripple across the social media presences of assorted significant perl/cpan people, myself included, decrying it, though it's non trivial to search for because most of us deliberately didn't include the URL to avoid signal boosting its existence any more than strictly necessary. The general consensus among my fellow cpan authors (including core team members of some of the most widely used projects) is basically a superposition of 1) "Oh for fuck's sake, not them again" and 2) "The only way this could've been more tone deaf and counter productive is if instead of a 'master plan' they'd called it a 'final solution'" There's lots of things happening of late that I'm very optimistic about. This shit is basically the Tulsi Gabbard of perl futures. I respect the right of the authors to hold their opinions, but I respect nothing about said opinions and would encourage everybody else not to feed the trolls. -- mst, deeply unimpressed by this shit
- zzzcpan 7y ago
  Comments like this is what makes people not want to participate in your community. And your peer group is not even the Perl community at large, I doubt anyone but a small minority even cares about what's going on with mainline Perl these days, they are not exposed to any of it.
  - mst 7y ago
    They've insulted the perl5 maint team. They've insulted the raku developers. They've insulted every cpan author I've ever seen dare to disagree with them. They've insulted Larry, to his face, mid conference talk. ("they" to mean "at least one, possibly both, of the two instigators of this rubbish") Their behaviour has repeatedly and materially damaged participation in the community. I understand that my comment may seem to be coming on a tad strong, but after several years of trying to get them to participate constructively my patience is more than a little frayed. -- mst
- 7y ago
pierrebai 7y ago
Your clarification would be more effective if it was less ad-hominem and provided more details why he is considered troublesome and should apologize.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- cestith 7y ago
  "Ad hominem" is a fallacy that someone is wrong because they are bad. I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying this action is a response to being ostracized for previous behavior which is widely considered unacceptable.

snapdangle 7y ago

Thank you for raising this very significant detail to the comment section!

bloke_zero 7y ago
It reads like a spoof, like if Paul McCartney wrote a manifesto for why he should be considered the cutting edge of rock.

jjcc 7y ago

Thanks. I strongly suggest constructive competition which will benefit all of us. In addition to that, I also suggest that somebody can have a high order review of how the dispute evolved so a better protocol can eventually developed to make an eco-system healthier. Or even more, study the weakness of human nature so a more efficient cooperative system can be created by promoting awareness of troublesome behaviors/features.

mst 7y ago
There was a half decade of attempts at turning this into constructive competition with cross-pollination, mostly conducted quietly between principals to maximise the chances of it working out usefully. None of said attempts worked out, as you can see.

mst 7y ago

Let me confirm this, except more so. Will and Reini have effectively been cut out of the main line perl community for repeatedly being assholes to anybody who dared to disagree with them about anything (and I mean being assholes by my standards, which I hope at least some readers will recognise as a rather high bar to clear). When the website was first created there was a ripple across the social media presences of assorted significant perl/cpan people, myself included, decrying it, though it's non trivial to search for because most of us deliberately didn't include the URL to avoid signal boosting its existence any more than strictly necessary. The general consensus among my fellow cpan authors (including core team members of some of the most widely used projects) is basically a superposition of 1) "Oh for fuck's sake, not them again" and 2) "The only way this could've been more tone deaf and counter productive is if instead of a 'master plan' they'd called it a 'final solution'" There's lots of things happening of late that I'm very optimistic about. This shit is basically the Tulsi Gabbard of perl futures. I respect the right of the authors to hold their opinions, but I respect nothing about said opinions and would encourage everybody else not to feed the trolls. -- mst, deeply unimpressed by this shit

zzzcpan 7y ago
Comments like this is what makes people not want to participate in your community. And your peer group is not even the Perl community at large, I doubt anyone but a small minority even cares about what's going on with mainline Perl these days, they are not exposed to any of it.
- mst 7y ago
  They've insulted the perl5 maint team. They've insulted the raku developers. They've insulted every cpan author I've ever seen dare to disagree with them. They've insulted Larry, to his face, mid conference talk. ("they" to mean "at least one, possibly both, of the two instigators of this rubbish") Their behaviour has repeatedly and materially damaged participation in the community. I understand that my comment may seem to be coming on a tad strong, but after several years of trying to get them to participate constructively my patience is more than a little frayed. -- mst
7y ago

pierrebai 7y ago

Your clarification would be more effective if it was less ad-hominem and provided more details why he is considered troublesome and should apologize.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
cestith 7y ago
"Ad hominem" is a fallacy that someone is wrong because they are bad. I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying this action is a response to being ostracized for previous behavior which is widely considered unacceptable.