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Would it materially harm a company with a trillion dollar market cap to offer a version of this without the touchbar (thus yielding a lower price), so people ca

Would it materially harm a company with a trillion dollar market cap to offer a version of this without the touchbar (thus yielding a lower price), so people can afford to upgrade the soldered memory and NVMe drive? Would it also harm them to make a version that didn't have soldered memory/NVMe drive? Ultimately, this is why I switched to a Dell Latitude. Being user hostile to basic memory/disk replacement doesn't fly with me when spending $1500+ on a machine. And if replacing either breaks the crypto chain - I don't need a black box T2 chip, I'll do my own disk encryption.

peeters 7y ago
I'm pretty sure at this point if they make a version without the touchbar, they'll market it as a premium feature and charge more. Now with 100% physical function keys!
- rock_artist 7y ago
  "The best keyboard experience just got better."
chrisBob 7y ago
If they care at all about making the touchbar a thing then the best way to do that is make every mac developer get one on their daily-use laptop. I still think of it as a novelty more than a functional feature, but I don't think any third party apps would support it if it didn't come on every MBP.
mmmBacon 7y ago
One way Apple has become a trillion dollar company is by minimizing skus. Options mean inventory, development and test costs etc... and can be sources of quality problems triggering warranty repairs or replacements. Doing few things allows one to streamline both product development and manufacturing.
- karpodiem 7y ago
  Removing the touchbar has a material financial impact to Apple? We're talking about a CNC machine here, that's how they carve out the aluminum chassis. It would literally involve them carving out less aluminum from the block, because the touchbar would no longer be needed. Quality problems? You mean like the over-engineered keyboard they've had issues with for three years? Some decades longer design patterns are battle tested/aren't broken, yet Apple continually tries to break them - thinness to the extent that they now solder memory/disk to the board, putting out a keyboard design that isn't sufficiently tested, and all sorts of Catalina issues that people have documented online.
- jpalomaki 7y ago
  Minimizing SKUs was the Jobs way. I’d say Apple has since then taken very different approach. Just check the number of iPad and iPhone variants.
  - ssully 7y ago
    They have more variants then in the past, but when compared to competitors today they still offer a more simplified lineup.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    During the Jobs era Apple had: 4 different types of iPods - Shuffle, Nano, Classic, Touch 3 iPhones: gen, gen-1, gen-2 3 laptops: Air, MacBook, Macbook Pro, 4 desktops: Mini, iMac, Mac Pro, XServe. It was only the "Jobs way" when they were about to go bankrupt.
    - esmi 7y ago
      How many more would there have been without him? Anyway, You listed 14 unique devices. In the late 90s Apple probably had that many Performas alone, never mind everything else.
      - scarface74 7y ago
selsta 7y ago
Apparently RAM and SSD are no longer soldered. https://twitter.com/axi0mX/status/1194621631856967688 https://twitter.com/axi0mX/status/1194621631856967688 Edit: Tweet deleted, info is most likely wrong.
- jumbopapa 7y ago
  That is speculation based off the wording they used in the description. He reached this conclusion because it said RAM/SSD were "not user accessible" and they used to say "built into the computer" - no one really knows the answer. I imagine they remain soldered.
- snuxoll 7y ago
  One only needs to take a look at the press images to see that they remain soldered on - https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/product/mac/standard/Apple_16-inch-MacBook-Pro_Advanced-Thermal-Design_111319_inline.gif.large_2x.gif https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/product/mac/standard/A... for example, there's just no space for SODIMM's to fit. Really annoying they continue to do this, especially given they charge excessive markup on memory upgrades (2x32GB DDR4 SODIMMS average $250-300, Apple charges you $800 for 64GB of memory).
  - artursapek 7y ago
    > Really annoying they continue to do this, especially given they charge excessive markup on memory upgrades This is exactly why they solder it on - so they can charge those prices. They've created a monopoly on hardware upgrades and repairs for their machines. This is why a lot of people refuse to buy Apple laptops these days.
    - threeseed 7y ago
      You can't upgrade a MacBook Pro after it has been purchased so not sure what monopoly you think Apple has. And the reason why they solder it is because it reduces the thickness of the laptops. Those clips/connectors don't come for free.
brightball 7y ago
Yep. This is why I made the linux switch and I'm a happy Dell customer because of it.

peeters 7y ago

I'm pretty sure at this point if they make a version without the touchbar, they'll market it as a premium feature and charge more. Now with 100% physical function keys!

rock_artist 7y ago
"The best keyboard experience just got better."

chrisBob 7y ago

If they care at all about making the touchbar a thing then the best way to do that is make every mac developer get one on their daily-use laptop. I still think of it as a novelty more than a functional feature, but I don't think any third party apps would support it if it didn't come on every MBP.

mmmBacon 7y ago

One way Apple has become a trillion dollar company is by minimizing skus. Options mean inventory, development and test costs etc... and can be sources of quality problems triggering warranty repairs or replacements. Doing few things allows one to streamline both product development and manufacturing.

karpodiem 7y ago
Removing the touchbar has a material financial impact to Apple? We're talking about a CNC machine here, that's how they carve out the aluminum chassis. It would literally involve them carving out less aluminum from the block, because the touchbar would no longer be needed. Quality problems? You mean like the over-engineered keyboard they've had issues with for three years? Some decades longer design patterns are battle tested/aren't broken, yet Apple continually tries to break them - thinness to the extent that they now solder memory/disk to the board, putting out a keyboard design that isn't sufficiently tested, and all sorts of Catalina issues that people have documented online.
jpalomaki 7y ago
Minimizing SKUs was the Jobs way. I’d say Apple has since then taken very different approach. Just check the number of iPad and iPhone variants.
- ssully 7y ago
  They have more variants then in the past, but when compared to competitors today they still offer a more simplified lineup.
- scarface74 7y ago
  During the Jobs era Apple had: 4 different types of iPods - Shuffle, Nano, Classic, Touch 3 iPhones: gen, gen-1, gen-2 3 laptops: Air, MacBook, Macbook Pro, 4 desktops: Mini, iMac, Mac Pro, XServe. It was only the "Jobs way" when they were about to go bankrupt.
  - esmi 7y ago
    How many more would there have been without him? Anyway, You listed 14 unique devices. In the late 90s Apple probably had that many Performas alone, never mind everything else.
    - scarface74 7y ago

selsta 7y ago

Apparently RAM and SSD are no longer soldered. https://twitter.com/axi0mX/status/1194621631856967688 https://twitter.com/axi0mX/status/1194621631856967688 Edit: Tweet deleted, info is most likely wrong.

jumbopapa 7y ago
That is speculation based off the wording they used in the description. He reached this conclusion because it said RAM/SSD were "not user accessible" and they used to say "built into the computer" - no one really knows the answer. I imagine they remain soldered.
snuxoll 7y ago
One only needs to take a look at the press images to see that they remain soldered on - https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/product/mac/standard/Apple_16-inch-MacBook-Pro_Advanced-Thermal-Design_111319_inline.gif.large_2x.gif https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/product/mac/standard/A... for example, there's just no space for SODIMM's to fit. Really annoying they continue to do this, especially given they charge excessive markup on memory upgrades (2x32GB DDR4 SODIMMS average $250-300, Apple charges you $800 for 64GB of memory).
- artursapek 7y ago
  > Really annoying they continue to do this, especially given they charge excessive markup on memory upgrades This is exactly why they solder it on - so they can charge those prices. They've created a monopoly on hardware upgrades and repairs for their machines. This is why a lot of people refuse to buy Apple laptops these days.
  - threeseed 7y ago
    You can't upgrade a MacBook Pro after it has been purchased so not sure what monopoly you think Apple has. And the reason why they solder it is because it reduces the thickness of the laptops. Those clips/connectors don't come for free.

brightball 7y ago

Yep. This is why I made the linux switch and I'm a happy Dell customer because of it.