3 ms·

I hear this every time TurboTax gets brought up. I think it's a lot healthier to foster good relationships between users and tech so that they don't have to dis

I hear this every time TurboTax gets brought up. I think it's a lot healthier to foster good relationships between users and tech so that they don't have to distrust instantaneous actions. As an aside, I'm also suspicious of research that shows ~100ms as the threshold for "instantaneous" action, because in video games like FPS shooters most players seem to dislike playing on ping that high.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
I have the same view. 100ms is fine for actions that require round trip to the server, in particular when you hide the latency the way multiplayer games do. But for things that are just local UI operations, if you're taking longer than 16.7 ms, you're doing something wrong. A typical videogame can update the whole screen and all game logic in less than that.
- londons_explore 7y ago
  Please pass this memo on to people who feel the need to animate UI elements to hide laggyness, and then animate into and out of a loading screen (eg. Loading an app on Android).
MaulingMonkey 7y ago
100ms ping is much different than 100ms total latency. Even locally, FPS games can reach upwards of 100ms latency locally even before hitting the network, so 100ms ping is more like 100+100=200ms of latency. http://renderingpipeline.com/2013/09/measuring-input-latency/ http://renderingpipeline.com/2013/09/measuring-input-latency... Additionally, we're extra sensitive to things like latency between a tablet pen drawing and it's stroke appearing, or rendering lagging behind VR HMD rotation, or audio latency if we're trying to jam. Even if we register ~100ms as "instantaneous" in a lot of scenarios, it can still cause troubling disconnects between action and result. John Carmack on VR HMD latency: https://danluu.com/latency-mitigation/ https://danluu.com/latency-mitigation/ John Carmack noting that depressing a 360 gamepad trigger can take 20ms: https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/233240260568551425 https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/233240260568551425 A Microsoft Research video on tablet input latency, where the effects of 100ms vs 1ms latency are clearly visible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4
rpedela 7y ago
The difference is the sense of touch vs vision. Touch is the most sensitive sense and the mismatch between it and vision is more noticeable in a video game than clicking buttons on a website. 300ms is actually the instantaneous threshold for non-dynamic interaction (typical website), but it is 1-10 ms for haptic devices.

TeMPOraL 7y ago

I have the same view. 100ms is fine for actions that require round trip to the server, in particular when you hide the latency the way multiplayer games do. But for things that are just local UI operations, if you're taking longer than 16.7 ms, you're doing something wrong. A typical videogame can update the whole screen and all game logic in less than that.

londons_explore 7y ago
Please pass this memo on to people who feel the need to animate UI elements to hide laggyness, and then animate into and out of a loading screen (eg. Loading an app on Android).

MaulingMonkey 7y ago

100ms ping is much different than 100ms total latency. Even locally, FPS games can reach upwards of 100ms latency locally even before hitting the network, so 100ms ping is more like 100+100=200ms of latency. http://renderingpipeline.com/2013/09/measuring-input-latency/ http://renderingpipeline.com/2013/09/measuring-input-latency... Additionally, we're extra sensitive to things like latency between a tablet pen drawing and it's stroke appearing, or rendering lagging behind VR HMD rotation, or audio latency if we're trying to jam. Even if we register ~100ms as "instantaneous" in a lot of scenarios, it can still cause troubling disconnects between action and result. John Carmack on VR HMD latency: https://danluu.com/latency-mitigation/ https://danluu.com/latency-mitigation/ John Carmack noting that depressing a 360 gamepad trigger can take 20ms: https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/233240260568551425 https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/233240260568551425 A Microsoft Research video on tablet input latency, where the effects of 100ms vs 1ms latency are clearly visible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4

rpedela 7y ago

The difference is the sense of touch vs vision. Touch is the most sensitive sense and the mismatch between it and vision is more noticeable in a video game than clicking buttons on a website. 300ms is actually the instantaneous threshold for non-dynamic interaction (typical website), but it is 1-10 ms for haptic devices.