5 ms·

fighting against the creation of a union is just as a political act as trying to create one (as an example). Saying "oh we should keep the office apolitical by

by rtpg 7y ago

fighting against the creation of a union is just as a political act as trying to create one (as an example). Saying "oh we should keep the office apolitical by not having a union" is a political act. Saying "oh we shouldn't complain about the kind of customers our emplyoer has" is a political act. Acting in opposition to political acts is in itself a political act. The apolitical thing to do would be to _not intervene in others' political processes_. If mgmt let its employees organize labor actions with the same willingness as a movie night, then they would be acting apolitically.

manfredo 7y ago
Perhaps in an non-standard understanding of what is and isn't political. An apolitical office is political in the same sense that secularism is a religious stance. It's not catering to any specific religion: it is equally exclusive of all religions. Similarly, an apolitical office doesn't prevent or directly influence the political activity of workers - it just relegates that political activity to spaces outside the office. > Saying "oh we should keep the office apolitical by not having a union" is a political act. Saying "oh we shouldn't complain about the kind of customers our emplyoer has" is a political act. That isn't keeping politics out of the workplace - it's the exact opposite. That's explicitly bringing politics into the workplace by trying to tell coworkers what views they should have. Curbing this behavior is exactly what keeping politics out of the workplace is about. > Acting in opposition to political acts is in itself a political act. The apolitical thing to do would be to _not intervene in others' political processes_. If mgmt let its employees organize labor actions with the same willingness as a movie night, then they would be acting apolitically. For the third time, Keeping politics out of the workplace does not oppose any view. It's about making clear that the office is not a space for political activity. Yes, the apolitical thing is to not intervene in others' political process. The reality is, bringing politics into the workplace is a very significant intervention in people's political lives. In the politically active offices I've worked in, plenty of employees feigned support for things they didn't support because they felt it was expected of them. Co workers whose views were part of the company majority dominated the conversation, because co-workers with minority viewpoints didn't want to risk repercussions for voicing unpopular views. So if you want a company that does not intervene in others' political lives, keeping politics out of the workplace is the most effective approach.
- ahelwer 7y ago
  This post was like watching a fish vigorously deny the existence of water. Look, functionally you're defining an "apolitical" office as unquestioning obedience. Which is fine, just own it instead of trying to dress it up.
  - manfredo 7y ago
    I'm not sure where you're seeing "unquestioned obedience". Employees can go support the politicians, or hold rallies for whatever cause they choose on their own time. An apolitical office is one where political activity isn't held in the office. That's it. I'm really not sure what is confusing about this.
    - ahelwer 7y ago
      Unquestioned obedience to the decisions of higher-ups.
      - manfredo 7y ago
        Again, an apolitical office does not entail unquestioned obedience - the notion that it does is your own fabrication. I've worked in apolitical offices before, and people do feel comfortable to question business decision and technical choices. In fact, I'd say people were more comfortable in questioning those decisions than in political offices, because in political offices people are loath to be perceived as political enemies.
- thundergolfer 7y ago
  > Perhaps in an non-standard understanding of what is and isn't political. "Politics is a set of activities associated with the governance of a country or an area. It involves making decisions that apply to group of members" - Wikipedia > An apolitical office is political in the same sense that secularism is a religious stance. This sentence doesn't make any sense as Secularism is a political concept and not a "religious stance". An office can never be an apolitical entity, given that it involves the organisation of people and decision making about their activities, AND that office necessarily interacts with wider society which is unavoidably a political area. When you think about it, it's really quite baffling that people can think they can spend almost 30% of their waking life within some system that is devoid of political relevance. Life is political. Society is political. What you do in your work and career is one of the most politically impactful parts of a persons life. To be generous, treating the workplace as devoid of politics is just support of the status-quo. Not sure whether I should belabour this point... > Yes, the apolitical thing is to not intervene in others' political process. Given that many people are socialists and want to live in a society where say, Education, is a public good and managed by public institutions, then simply maintaining private educational institutions is intervening in the "political process" of others.

by rtpg 7y ago

manfredo 7y ago

Perhaps in an non-standard understanding of what is and isn't political. An apolitical office is political in the same sense that secularism is a religious stance. It's not catering to any specific religion: it is equally exclusive of all religions. Similarly, an apolitical office doesn't prevent or directly influence the political activity of workers - it just relegates that political activity to spaces outside the office. > Saying "oh we should keep the office apolitical by not having a union" is a political act. Saying "oh we shouldn't complain about the kind of customers our emplyoer has" is a political act. That isn't keeping politics out of the workplace - it's the exact opposite. That's explicitly bringing politics into the workplace by trying to tell coworkers what views they should have. Curbing this behavior is exactly what keeping politics out of the workplace is about. > Acting in opposition to political acts is in itself a political act. The apolitical thing to do would be to _not intervene in others' political processes_. If mgmt let its employees organize labor actions with the same willingness as a movie night, then they would be acting apolitically. For the third time, Keeping politics out of the workplace does not oppose any view. It's about making clear that the office is not a space for political activity. Yes, the apolitical thing is to not intervene in others' political process. The reality is, bringing politics into the workplace is a very significant intervention in people's political lives. In the politically active offices I've worked in, plenty of employees feigned support for things they didn't support because they felt it was expected of them. Co workers whose views were part of the company majority dominated the conversation, because co-workers with minority viewpoints didn't want to risk repercussions for voicing unpopular views. So if you want a company that does not intervene in others' political lives, keeping politics out of the workplace is the most effective approach.

ahelwer 7y ago
This post was like watching a fish vigorously deny the existence of water. Look, functionally you're defining an "apolitical" office as unquestioning obedience. Which is fine, just own it instead of trying to dress it up.
- manfredo 7y ago
  I'm not sure where you're seeing "unquestioned obedience". Employees can go support the politicians, or hold rallies for whatever cause they choose on their own time. An apolitical office is one where political activity isn't held in the office. That's it. I'm really not sure what is confusing about this.
  - ahelwer 7y ago
    Unquestioned obedience to the decisions of higher-ups.
    - manfredo 7y ago
      Again, an apolitical office does not entail unquestioned obedience - the notion that it does is your own fabrication. I've worked in apolitical offices before, and people do feel comfortable to question business decision and technical choices. In fact, I'd say people were more comfortable in questioning those decisions than in political offices, because in political offices people are loath to be perceived as political enemies.
thundergolfer 7y ago
> Perhaps in an non-standard understanding of what is and isn't political. "Politics is a set of activities associated with the governance of a country or an area. It involves making decisions that apply to group of members" - Wikipedia > An apolitical office is political in the same sense that secularism is a religious stance. This sentence doesn't make any sense as Secularism is a political concept and not a "religious stance". An office can never be an apolitical entity, given that it involves the organisation of people and decision making about their activities, AND that office necessarily interacts with wider society which is unavoidably a political area. When you think about it, it's really quite baffling that people can think they can spend almost 30% of their waking life within some system that is devoid of political relevance. Life is political. Society is political. What you do in your work and career is one of the most politically impactful parts of a persons life. To be generous, treating the workplace as devoid of politics is just support of the status-quo. Not sure whether I should belabour this point... > Yes, the apolitical thing is to not intervene in others' political process. Given that many people are socialists and want to live in a society where say, Education, is a public good and managed by public institutions, then simply maintaining private educational institutions is intervening in the "political process" of others.