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> In the old days, it was routine for customs officers to search ships coming in to harbor, including the effects of their passengers, to enforce importation la

> In the old days, it was routine for customs officers to search ships coming in to harbor, including the effects of their passengers, to enforce importation laws Yes, but electronic devices can't digitally contain physical substances that might be subject to customs laws. It's not comparable. It's probably still today reasonable to search ships in the harbor and passengers for physical substances (like banned animals or fruits/vegetables), but it's not obvious to me how searching electronic devices achieves any reasonable objective related to customs law.

harshreality 7y ago
Evidence of the four horsemen[1]. Child porn, terrorism, drugs, and the all-encompassing "organized crime" — which can include money laundering, which in turn can mean having enough money the government wants to steal it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalyp...
briandear 7y ago
> Yes, but electronic devices can't digitally contain physical substances that might be subject to customs laws Child porn is prohibited to be imported in any form, including digital. Customs isn’t about just physical objects.
- deleted 7y ago
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- simonh 7y ago
  Of course not, but there is a degree of proportionality here. In theory a person's personal diary, letters, chequebook etc could contain evidence of crimes. However it's generally not been considered appropriate to read through them during a customs search. The rights granted under the constitution were provided explicitly under the knowing assumption that they could be used to conceal actual crimes or criminal intent. That's the point of them needing protection from the authorities. The mere possibility of committing a crime isn't enough grounds to invade a person's privacy to that degree. You need actual reason to suspect it in an individual case to go that far.
ryangee 7y ago
> but it's not obvious to me how searching electronic devices achieves any reasonable objective related to customs law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernstein_v._United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernstein_v._United_States

harshreality 7y ago

Evidence of the four horsemen[1]. Child porn, terrorism, drugs, and the all-encompassing "organized crime" — which can include money laundering, which in turn can mean having enough money the government wants to steal it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalyp...

briandear 7y ago

> Yes, but electronic devices can't digitally contain physical substances that might be subject to customs laws Child porn is prohibited to be imported in any form, including digital. Customs isn’t about just physical objects.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
simonh 7y ago
Of course not, but there is a degree of proportionality here. In theory a person's personal diary, letters, chequebook etc could contain evidence of crimes. However it's generally not been considered appropriate to read through them during a customs search. The rights granted under the constitution were provided explicitly under the knowing assumption that they could be used to conceal actual crimes or criminal intent. That's the point of them needing protection from the authorities. The mere possibility of committing a crime isn't enough grounds to invade a person's privacy to that degree. You need actual reason to suspect it in an individual case to go that far.

ryangee 7y ago

> but it's not obvious to me how searching electronic devices achieves any reasonable objective related to customs law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernstein_v._United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernstein_v._United_States