4 ms·

How do you square that with stuff like whether your company should, for example, support same sex partner benefits, trans inclusive healthcare, prayer rooms, et

How do you square that with stuff like whether your company should, for example, support same sex partner benefits, trans inclusive healthcare, prayer rooms, etc?

Mikeb85 7y ago
> same sex partner benefits, trans inclusive healthcare Aren't things like this governed by local laws? In Canada we have private insurance for things above and beyond basic health care, but only the government gets to decide who is a partner, dependant, etc... > prayer rooms Are they going to build chapels for every religion? Who decides which religions get chapels or prayer rooms? Or does only 1 religion get a prayer room because 2019 politics?
- RobertRoberts 7y ago
  The reference may be to the fact that Amazon (for example) provided only space for Muslims to have prayer rooms, but no one else.
  - thrower123 7y ago
    I wonder if there is any of the kind of phenomenon I used to observe in my blue-collar days - smokers could take 10-15 minutes off every hour to go to the smoking area and light up, so non-smokers got irritated and started going along too for their "second-hand smoke" breaks...
  - javagram 7y ago
    I’d be shocked if amazon in fact had a policy that only Muslims could use the prayer rooms. Christians and Jews should be able to use them if they choose. I googled around and could only find statements that Muslim employees of a security contractor for amazon were not allowed to use the rooms for a while, but after protests and NLRB intervention now are.
    - RobertRoberts 7y ago
      Maybe because in the US we have religious freedom so we don't feel the need to protest to demand others accommodate us? It's like a millionaire eating at a restaurant, and instead of tipping the waitress he expects to be tipped by the waitress. The extra demands only leave a bad taste in everyone else's mouths.
      - javagram 7y ago
        I don’t really understand the relation of your comment to mine. I’ve worked at a (US) company with a prayer room that was used by some Muslim employees. As a Christian myself, I don’t think it would have been considered a problem if I used it when it was vacant to say a prayer, although my religious tradition doesn’t have the 5x/day prayer requirement like Islam does so I never did.
        RobertRoberts 7y ago
        I don't think only Muslims could use the rooms in any stories I have read about this topic. That wasn't my point. Consider going to a Muslim majority country where the religion controls the laws (like Indonesia) and /demand/ your Christian religious needs be accommodated. From my studying, you would either be summarily dismissed or even possibly punished.
        Pfhreak 7y ago
        And that's the way it should be? You are arguing that we should adopt that model? If not, this is just whataboutism. Just because other countries do something badly doesn't mean we shouldn't try to do better.
        RobertRoberts 7y ago
        No, I am arguing the opposite. That they are /importing/ that tyranny, and most people seem to be unaware of it. Imagine if Buddists at Amazon had protested and demanded their own space for shrines? Or any other religion that has observational requirements? The US is being blind to oppression of religious freedom under a false ideal of what that freedom really is.
- pbourke 7y ago
  > Aren't things like this governed by local laws? In the US this is governed by a patchwork of federal, state and local laws as well as employer policies.
  - Mikeb85 7y ago
    Sounds efficient.
    - jessaustin 7y ago
      Efficiency is the last thing any subject wants from the Law.
      - xenyal 7y ago
        Why is that?
        Nasrudith 7y ago
        Because historically practicality is the limiting factor for enforcement as opposed to any regard for those affected by it. Keeping it expensive has generally resulted in a situational usage where it is more appropriate and far less abusable.
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  > Aren't things like this governed by local laws? Nope. In many places in the states you have little to no protections. (You can be fired for being trans, for example.) > Are they going to build chapels for every religion? Most workplaces I've worked have had a 'quiet room' or similar that was designed to be a private space for personal prayer if needed. It had a chair and clean carpet, but was otherwise unadorned. It just couldn't be booked as a conference room. There are folks whose religions require them to pray during the day, and having a space to quietly do so seems (to me) to be reasonable?
lobotryas 7y ago
The company must provide benefits required by law. Everything else is discretionary. What’s definitely optional is for a company to take a stance on a political issue just because a vocal minority of their employees demands that.
seibelj 7y ago
I'm a live and let live kind of guy, if a company wants to compete for employees by offering all of that, that's great! On the flip side, where do you draw the line? It's one thing not to work someplace, it's another to protest your own employer because they are not accommodating you with prayer rooms onsite.

How do you square that with stuff like whether your company should, for example, support same sex partner benefits, trans inclusive healthcare, prayer rooms, etc?

Mikeb85 7y ago

> same sex partner benefits, trans inclusive healthcare Aren't things like this governed by local laws? In Canada we have private insurance for things above and beyond basic health care, but only the government gets to decide who is a partner, dependant, etc... > prayer rooms Are they going to build chapels for every religion? Who decides which religions get chapels or prayer rooms? Or does only 1 religion get a prayer room because 2019 politics?

RobertRoberts 7y ago
The reference may be to the fact that Amazon (for example) provided only space for Muslims to have prayer rooms, but no one else.
- thrower123 7y ago
  I wonder if there is any of the kind of phenomenon I used to observe in my blue-collar days - smokers could take 10-15 minutes off every hour to go to the smoking area and light up, so non-smokers got irritated and started going along too for their "second-hand smoke" breaks...
- javagram 7y ago
  I’d be shocked if amazon in fact had a policy that only Muslims could use the prayer rooms. Christians and Jews should be able to use them if they choose. I googled around and could only find statements that Muslim employees of a security contractor for amazon were not allowed to use the rooms for a while, but after protests and NLRB intervention now are.
  - RobertRoberts 7y ago
    Maybe because in the US we have religious freedom so we don't feel the need to protest to demand others accommodate us? It's like a millionaire eating at a restaurant, and instead of tipping the waitress he expects to be tipped by the waitress. The extra demands only leave a bad taste in everyone else's mouths.
    - javagram 7y ago
      I don’t really understand the relation of your comment to mine. I’ve worked at a (US) company with a prayer room that was used by some Muslim employees. As a Christian myself, I don’t think it would have been considered a problem if I used it when it was vacant to say a prayer, although my religious tradition doesn’t have the 5x/day prayer requirement like Islam does so I never did.
      - RobertRoberts 7y ago
        I don't think only Muslims could use the rooms in any stories I have read about this topic. That wasn't my point. Consider going to a Muslim majority country where the religion controls the laws (like Indonesia) and /demand/ your Christian religious needs be accommodated. From my studying, you would either be summarily dismissed or even possibly punished.
        Pfhreak 7y ago
        And that's the way it should be? You are arguing that we should adopt that model? If not, this is just whataboutism. Just because other countries do something badly doesn't mean we shouldn't try to do better.
        RobertRoberts 7y ago
        No, I am arguing the opposite. That they are /importing/ that tyranny, and most people seem to be unaware of it. Imagine if Buddists at Amazon had protested and demanded their own space for shrines? Or any other religion that has observational requirements? The US is being blind to oppression of religious freedom under a false ideal of what that freedom really is.
pbourke 7y ago
> Aren't things like this governed by local laws? In the US this is governed by a patchwork of federal, state and local laws as well as employer policies.
- Mikeb85 7y ago
  Sounds efficient.
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    Efficiency is the last thing any subject wants from the Law.
    - xenyal 7y ago
      Why is that?
      - Nasrudith 7y ago
        Because historically practicality is the limiting factor for enforcement as opposed to any regard for those affected by it. Keeping it expensive has generally resulted in a situational usage where it is more appropriate and far less abusable.
Pfhreak 7y ago
> Aren't things like this governed by local laws? Nope. In many places in the states you have little to no protections. (You can be fired for being trans, for example.) > Are they going to build chapels for every religion? Most workplaces I've worked have had a 'quiet room' or similar that was designed to be a private space for personal prayer if needed. It had a chair and clean carpet, but was otherwise unadorned. It just couldn't be booked as a conference room. There are folks whose religions require them to pray during the day, and having a space to quietly do so seems (to me) to be reasonable?

lobotryas 7y ago

The company must provide benefits required by law. Everything else is discretionary. What’s definitely optional is for a company to take a stance on a political issue just because a vocal minority of their employees demands that.

seibelj 7y ago

I'm a live and let live kind of guy, if a company wants to compete for employees by offering all of that, that's great! On the flip side, where do you draw the line? It's one thing not to work someplace, it's another to protest your own employer because they are not accommodating you with prayer rooms onsite.