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According to lore, it all started with the architect deciding against the tried and tested usage of little chimney-like structure on top of the terminal roofs f

by usrusr 7y ago

According to lore, it all started with the architect deciding against the tried and tested usage of little chimney-like structure on top of the terminal roofs for fire protection de-fuming, insisting instead on some novel, less visible solutions for aesthetic reasons. Those then caused all kinds of follow-up issues, eventually leading into the construction equivalent of the perpetual bugfix cycle, where every fix brings two new problems. Compounded by a colorful parade of high level "fix it guys" taking over the reins and failing in short progression, adding to the chaos.

detaro 7y ago
As far as I remember, the estimation was that the fire system was properly designed (although more complex for the mentioned artistic reasons) and would have worked - for the building that was originally planned, which the airport company then changed massively.
- flukus 7y ago
  Seems like there's a lesson there about sticking to tried and proven solutions even if you come up with a better one. Or maybe it's a worse is better thing?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- PavlovsCat 7y ago
  https://onemileatatime.com/berlin-brandenburg-airport/ https://onemileatatime.com/berlin-brandenburg-airport/ > In 2014 it was revealed that Alfredo di Mauro, the chief planner for the airport’s fire protection system, was not a qualified engineer but an engineering draftsman. He admitted this, saying everyone thought he was a proper engineer and ‘he didn’t contradict them.’ > His mistakes have cost hundreds of millions of dollars to fix. As a tangent, not to belittle the corruption around BER, and with more tongue in cheek than snark: I wonder how many people responsible for things on this list https://hn.algolia.com/?q=breach https://hn.algolia.com/?q=breach (insofar the cause was negligence) have "software engineer" in their job title or description? If you ctrl+F "engineer" in those articles and discussions, you'll see it thrown about quite casually. If architecture was like software, buildings would regularly just collapse, and sudden death would just be an accepted risk risk of going into a building or walking past one. Some people would complain about that, but we would consider them idealists and their demands incompatible with progress and prosperity.
willyt 7y ago
Emergency smoke ventilation is a solved problem, ‘little chimneys on the roof’ are one of many different solutions; there are lots of different strategies. So that sounds like nonsense. Source, I’ve worked on mega projects like this. If it’s true that someone decided to swap departures with arrivals once the building was already on site, I would say that’s your problem right there. Whoever is responsible for that caused this mess. I would hazard a guess that the airport was originally briefed to be designed as primarily a government funded transport interchange, someone decided it should make some money to help pay for the costs and the only way to make room for the extended corridors full of shops was to turn the design concept upside down.
- robert_foss 7y ago
  The BER airport was originally meant to be a HUB airport even though no airline wanted to place a hub operation there. AirBerlin was thought of as a good candidate, but that airline no longer exists.
- gmueckl 7y ago
  The smoke ventilation system was originally designed to rely on fans to blow the smoke downwards in the ventilation shafts. As far as I know, nobody had tried to build a system like this before. Rumor has it that ventilation pipes even imploded during a test. That's not all. Signs of poor planning and poor execution seem to be everywhere. Pipes for a central water cooling system for IT and other electronics were supposedly embedded directly into concrete walls instead of into shafts and the system was known to have too little capacity before the building was supposed to open. One escalator turned out to be too short when delivered. Instead of fixing the escalator, they extended it by adding regular stairs to the end. The contents of cable shafts in the building is completely unknown. Nobody knows anymore. New cables are thrown in randomly to suit current needs. Some shafts seem to have already filled up completely because of that. The management of the construction site has also been a complete disaster. I don't recall how many tech leads had to go because of allegations of corruption, for example. These are just the worst issues that I remeber. The smoke ventilation was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
  - 7y ago

by usrusr 7y ago

detaro 7y ago

As far as I remember, the estimation was that the fire system was properly designed (although more complex for the mentioned artistic reasons) and would have worked - for the building that was originally planned, which the airport company then changed massively.

flukus 7y ago
Seems like there's a lesson there about sticking to tried and proven solutions even if you come up with a better one. Or maybe it's a worse is better thing?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
PavlovsCat 7y ago
https://onemileatatime.com/berlin-brandenburg-airport/ https://onemileatatime.com/berlin-brandenburg-airport/ > In 2014 it was revealed that Alfredo di Mauro, the chief planner for the airport’s fire protection system, was not a qualified engineer but an engineering draftsman. He admitted this, saying everyone thought he was a proper engineer and ‘he didn’t contradict them.’ > His mistakes have cost hundreds of millions of dollars to fix. As a tangent, not to belittle the corruption around BER, and with more tongue in cheek than snark: I wonder how many people responsible for things on this list https://hn.algolia.com/?q=breach https://hn.algolia.com/?q=breach (insofar the cause was negligence) have "software engineer" in their job title or description? If you ctrl+F "engineer" in those articles and discussions, you'll see it thrown about quite casually. If architecture was like software, buildings would regularly just collapse, and sudden death would just be an accepted risk risk of going into a building or walking past one. Some people would complain about that, but we would consider them idealists and their demands incompatible with progress and prosperity.

willyt 7y ago

Emergency smoke ventilation is a solved problem, ‘little chimneys on the roof’ are one of many different solutions; there are lots of different strategies. So that sounds like nonsense. Source, I’ve worked on mega projects like this. If it’s true that someone decided to swap departures with arrivals once the building was already on site, I would say that’s your problem right there. Whoever is responsible for that caused this mess. I would hazard a guess that the airport was originally briefed to be designed as primarily a government funded transport interchange, someone decided it should make some money to help pay for the costs and the only way to make room for the extended corridors full of shops was to turn the design concept upside down.

robert_foss 7y ago
The BER airport was originally meant to be a HUB airport even though no airline wanted to place a hub operation there. AirBerlin was thought of as a good candidate, but that airline no longer exists.
gmueckl 7y ago
The smoke ventilation system was originally designed to rely on fans to blow the smoke downwards in the ventilation shafts. As far as I know, nobody had tried to build a system like this before. Rumor has it that ventilation pipes even imploded during a test. That's not all. Signs of poor planning and poor execution seem to be everywhere. Pipes for a central water cooling system for IT and other electronics were supposedly embedded directly into concrete walls instead of into shafts and the system was known to have too little capacity before the building was supposed to open. One escalator turned out to be too short when delivered. Instead of fixing the escalator, they extended it by adding regular stairs to the end. The contents of cable shafts in the building is completely unknown. Nobody knows anymore. New cables are thrown in randomly to suit current needs. Some shafts seem to have already filled up completely because of that. The management of the construction site has also been a complete disaster. I don't recall how many tech leads had to go because of allegations of corruption, for example. These are just the worst issues that I remeber. The smoke ventilation was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
- 7y ago