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I received about 20 of these scam letters after buying a house. I kept all of them in a folder for my records. One thing that I noticed is that all these scam l

I received about 20 of these scam letters after buying a house. I kept all of them in a folder for my records. One thing that I noticed is that all these scam letters included a no-postage-required, Business Reply Mail envelope. I guess they make so much money off these scams that they can pay the return postage. I returned all of these envelopes filled to the max with random pieces of junk paper. BUT, I made sure that my name and address (or zip code) did not appear in anything that I sent back. If I understand the USPS rates correctly (https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/Notice123.htm https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/Notice123.htm), each returned mail costs them $1.38. Maybe if enough people sent these envelopes back (with junk), the low hit rate compared to cost of the returned letters would make this business unprofitable.

Namrog84 7y ago
Counter point. If this(free postage) is an easy and good proxy for detecting this type of scam. By doing this they might stop(doing free postage) . And then you and others lose their easy no effor detection?
- munk-a 7y ago
  "General, the secret weapon is ready to fire" 'Oh gosh, wait a moment, I just realized that as soon as we fire the secret weapon it stops being a secret, that's like 99% of the value of it - we must forever abstain from firing the secret weapon so that we always maintain a position of power where we have a secret weapon we can fire - but golly gee willikers make sure our enemies never discover our secret weapon!'
cbsks 7y ago
I do that with every piece of junk mail that I receive that has a business reply envelope. I thought that I was the only one!
tombert 7y ago
I did something similar with the Peter Popoff scam letters...I would either fill it with old dead batteries, or just go outside and fill it to the brim with dirt. Nothing really identifiable with that, and it was a was a relatively easy way to cost him money.
- eli 7y ago
  You're mostly just inconveniencing your postal carrier. They throw that stuff out.
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    The point isn't that the scammers read the junk you send them. It's that they had to pay for you sending that junk to them, which increases their costs. (But it would take a lot of people doing the same to make a dent.)
    - eli 7y ago
      No, I mean the post office throws it out. If you tape a reply card to a brick or stuff the envelope with sand... they don't actually deliver it.
      - gamblor956 7y ago
        The post office will not deliver the brick because the postage doesn't cover the weight (or shape) of the brick. They will deliver an envelope stuffed with sand unless it exceeds the weight limits covered by that postage. (I know that second part from actual recent experience.)
        eli 7y ago
        If they consider the mailing an "improper" use of the return label, they can toss it regardless of weight.
        tombert 7y ago
        In my particular case, I stuff it with dirt, but I make sure that it's sealed all the way, so I don't know that they know it's an improper case.
      - colejohnson66 7y ago
dmlittle 7y ago
> One thing that I noticed is that all these scam letters included a no-postage-required, Business Reply Mail envelope. I guess they make so much money off these scams that they can pay the return postage. For business reply envelopes (BRE) you only pay postage for the envelopes that are sent back and not the ones that are printed. If you're sending back something, chances are you're sending them an $89 check so it more than covers for postage cost. The envelope cost is marginal.
CiPHPerCoder 7y ago
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=junk_the_junk http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=junk_the_jun... This is a time-honored way to piss off junk mailers.
- delfinom 7y ago
  Or to full evil and fill the envelopes with microglitter.
hef19898 7y ago
Oh, there are a so many of these schemes running in Germany around company registration that notaries are now accounting for them in the incorporation paper work. Notaries are protecting themselves having a written confirmation their clients have been made aware of the problem. The scam is done by crawling the public announcements of new registered companies. Then the scammer, also a proper company, sends out an "offer" for registration in their database. Also, be aware refusal to pay will result in deletion of the record and people won't be able to find the company in that particular database. Fees are payable within two weeks, wire transfer and bank details are included, and run between 400 and 800 Euro (at least the ones I got). One number I heard was that roughly a third of new companies pay at least one of these scammers. Crazy, right? Also legal because it is an "offer" for a "service"...
- Moru 7y ago
  Yes, happens in Sweden too. And they are doing quite well for themselves.
  - hef19898 7y ago
    had my doubts, but it really seems to be a solid business model. shady, sure. despicable too. but still solid.
- Bombthecat 7y ago
  What? The? Actual... Wow... I didn't know... Sometimes I really wonder..

Namrog84 7y ago

Counter point. If this(free postage) is an easy and good proxy for detecting this type of scam. By doing this they might stop(doing free postage) . And then you and others lose their easy no effor detection?

munk-a 7y ago
"General, the secret weapon is ready to fire" 'Oh gosh, wait a moment, I just realized that as soon as we fire the secret weapon it stops being a secret, that's like 99% of the value of it - we must forever abstain from firing the secret weapon so that we always maintain a position of power where we have a secret weapon we can fire - but golly gee willikers make sure our enemies never discover our secret weapon!'

cbsks 7y ago

I do that with every piece of junk mail that I receive that has a business reply envelope. I thought that I was the only one!

tombert 7y ago

I did something similar with the Peter Popoff scam letters...I would either fill it with old dead batteries, or just go outside and fill it to the brim with dirt. Nothing really identifiable with that, and it was a was a relatively easy way to cost him money.

eli 7y ago
You're mostly just inconveniencing your postal carrier. They throw that stuff out.
- gamblor956 7y ago
  The point isn't that the scammers read the junk you send them. It's that they had to pay for you sending that junk to them, which increases their costs. (But it would take a lot of people doing the same to make a dent.)
  - eli 7y ago
    No, I mean the post office throws it out. If you tape a reply card to a brick or stuff the envelope with sand... they don't actually deliver it.
    - gamblor956 7y ago
      The post office will not deliver the brick because the postage doesn't cover the weight (or shape) of the brick. They will deliver an envelope stuffed with sand unless it exceeds the weight limits covered by that postage. (I know that second part from actual recent experience.)
      - eli 7y ago
        If they consider the mailing an "improper" use of the return label, they can toss it regardless of weight.
        tombert 7y ago
        In my particular case, I stuff it with dirt, but I make sure that it's sealed all the way, so I don't know that they know it's an improper case.
    - colejohnson66 7y ago

dmlittle 7y ago

> One thing that I noticed is that all these scam letters included a no-postage-required, Business Reply Mail envelope. I guess they make so much money off these scams that they can pay the return postage. For business reply envelopes (BRE) you only pay postage for the envelopes that are sent back and not the ones that are printed. If you're sending back something, chances are you're sending them an $89 check so it more than covers for postage cost. The envelope cost is marginal.

CiPHPerCoder 7y ago

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=junk_the_junk http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=junk_the_jun... This is a time-honored way to piss off junk mailers.

delfinom 7y ago
Or to full evil and fill the envelopes with microglitter.

hef19898 7y ago

Oh, there are a so many of these schemes running in Germany around company registration that notaries are now accounting for them in the incorporation paper work. Notaries are protecting themselves having a written confirmation their clients have been made aware of the problem. The scam is done by crawling the public announcements of new registered companies. Then the scammer, also a proper company, sends out an "offer" for registration in their database. Also, be aware refusal to pay will result in deletion of the record and people won't be able to find the company in that particular database. Fees are payable within two weeks, wire transfer and bank details are included, and run between 400 and 800 Euro (at least the ones I got). One number I heard was that roughly a third of new companies pay at least one of these scammers. Crazy, right? Also legal because it is an "offer" for a "service"...

Moru 7y ago
Yes, happens in Sweden too. And they are doing quite well for themselves.
- hef19898 7y ago
  had my doubts, but it really seems to be a solid business model. shady, sure. despicable too. but still solid.
Bombthecat 7y ago
What? The? Actual... Wow... I didn't know... Sometimes I really wonder..