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This information seems to combine well with information offered by Mark Sissons of "Primal Lifestyle" fame. I am currently exploring that specific avenue, I ha

This information seems to combine well with information offered by Mark Sissons of "Primal Lifestyle" fame. I am currently exploring that specific avenue, I have lost over 10 pounds in 2 weeks, and it does not seem to be all based on water retention. I am awaiting blood work lab results to make sure I do not have anything out of whack, and if I get a green light, I'll continue. Insulin response is quite a weighty subject to study, and the Standard American Diet (I bet some love the initials of that) appears to aggravate that system within us. YMMV, consult with your health partner expert.

leshow 7y ago
All that's telling you is that you're in a caloric deficit, which is probably a result of restricting the food groups you are eating. You often see this with people who do a low carb diet. They lose a bunch of weight initially, and think it was because carbohydrates were making them fat. The reality is they just eliminated one of the 3 big macronutrients, and as a result their caloric intake went down.
- kareemm 7y ago
  I’m not sure this is true. As you ramp down eg carbs you ramp up protein and fat, sometimes significantly. It’s not clear that a caloric deficit is the reason you’re losing weight.
  - phkahler 7y ago
    There are a lot of people, especially on HN, that think delta_weight = calories_in - calories_burned is all there is to it. There is a lot of truth in that, but it seems to not be the whole story. Some eating habits cause us to eat more or less, while others seem to change our metabolism. What you eat and when you eat it seem to make a difference beyond just that simple equation.
    - anthonypasq 7y ago
      > What you eat and when you eat it seem to make a difference beyond just that simple equation. evidence?
      - Yeehaw789 7y ago
        Google epigenetics
        naasking 7y ago
        It doesn't change the fundamental principles though. Meal timing and composition can affect how your body burns those calories (resting metabolic rate, thermic effect of food, etc.), but they're relatively minor effects overall. At best, meal composition and timing can improve adherence, and that's a very important factor.
        jjeaff 7y ago
        Minor effects that can have drastic effects over the long term. I have seen plenty of people wax about how metabolic variation in healthy people is only a few percentages. Well 2% is a HUGE difference. That means if two people eat exactly the same diet and same level of activity, assuming a 2000 calorie daily intake, the person with a 2% slower metabolism is going to be 40 lbs heavier over a 10 year period.
        naasking 7y ago
        Metabolic rate is not static. That 2% difference would not persist beyond a short time frame. Both bodies would down regulate metabolism to roughly the same levels given the same caloric deficit over time. One might change faster than the other, but the differences aren't as significant over longer time frames as you imply.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - 7y ago
  - anthonypasq 7y ago
    > It’s not clear that a caloric deficit is the reason you’re losing weight. umm what... That is the only way to lose lean body mass. You should be thinking "its not clear that removing carbs is reason you're losing weight." Your bayesian priors are completely backwards. The reality is that protein and fat are more satiating so people eat less and lose weight when they cut out carbs.
    - kareemm 7y ago
      CICO is too simple a model. Satiety is a factor but it’s facile to say fat satiates more so you eat fewer calories. If I understand it correctly that’s not how leptin works (satiety hormone). It doesn’t trigger at eg 500 calories regardless of which macro you ate. In reality it’s more nuanced: “It is true that fat has more calories than carbohydrates, including sugar. But by that logic, a sugary beverage is better for you than a handful of nuts. That’s just not what the unbiased studies have shown. Looking only at calories ignores the metabolic effects of each calorie; the source of the calorie changes how you digest it and how you retrieve energy from it.” From https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/theres-no-sugar-coating-it-all-calories-are-not-created-equal-2016110410602 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/theres-no-sugar-coating-...
      - leshow 7y ago
        I wouldnt claim that fat satiation causes someone to eat fewer calories either. But I disagree that the quote you presented somehow claims that a person can lose weight while not being in a deficit. It's physically impossible. That doesn't mean other processes aren't going on, or that you shouldn't consider other things like macronutrients and micronutrients when trying to construct a "healthy" diet.
        gamblor956 7y ago
        It's definitely possible to lose weight without being in a deficit of calories. For example, insufficient protein (or protein precursors like amino acids) can cause the breakdown of muscle, which is denser and weighs more than fat. You'd have to have a sizable excess of calories to have the fat storage to cancel out the loss of muscle mass.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - vorpalhex 7y ago
    All weight loss is due to caloric deficit in the end. There's no magic from eating fat/protein/carbs. It does happen in the US that most of our carb heavy food is also very calorie dense and doesn't give us a lot of satiety, so by targeting low carb it's easier to be in a calorie deficit (which is why I do low carb).
    - sorenn111 7y ago
      This statement neglects the role that hormones and other bodily functions play in homeostasis. Calorie-in calorie-out has not really stood the test of time/testing. The body can save calories in a number of weird ways when it needs to
      - vorpalhex 7y ago
        I'd love to see some research supporting that statement because caloric restriction has been consistently upheld by longitudinal analysis and meta-analysis. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31303390 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31303390
      - leshow 7y ago
        Just because overall energy balance will determine whether you're generally losing or gaining weight doesn't mean hormones aren't important, or that macro/micros aren't also important. I'm not sure what you're basing the fact that energy balance hasn't "stood the test of time". It's been well researched for decades.
    - gamblor956 7y ago
      All weight loss is due to caloric deficit in the end. Not true. It's possible to lose different types of weight (i.e., muscle or bone) due to the body's inability to repair such tissue in the absence of proper diet sources. For example, if you drink 2000 calories/day as your only food source, you will lose bone mass and muscle mass over time, and the fat stored by your body (if any) will weigh less than the bone or muscle mass lost. There's no magic from eating fat/protein/carbs. Fat, carbs, and protein all have different roles in the body. Luckily, our diets generally get enough of all 3 that it's not that much of an issue...but lots of research shows that having the optimal balance of FPC for your current body condition and activity results can drastically affect performance, sleep, behavior, etc.
- magashna 7y ago
  It's also due to feeling fuller. Eating a diet rich in fat rather than carbs leaves you feeling full with less calories.
- raintrees 7y ago
  According to several authors I have recently read, the trick is along the lines of Keto - Switching the body from carb burning to fat burning for energy. And as stated in comments below, the hormonal differences are also claimed to have a bigger influence than just calorie counting. How those calories are processed (glucose versus fructose versus sucrose - all with potentially different mechanisms, from what I have learned) are treated differently by my body than how saturated fats are treated. For example, there seems to be proof that saturated fat processing by the body sets the satiety signal more thoroughly than carbohydrate processing, and for longer duration. I feel less hungry, sated, so I eat less. And now when I eat, I focus more on the inclusiveness/variety of the source foods to make sure I am getting a more rounded spectrum of vitamins, minerals, and other vital components our bodies seem to require for good health. It has so far been a fun experiment, unlike other attempts I have made in the past.
- foxyv 7y ago
  Then why doesn't it work in the other configurations? For instance, a low fat diet has been shown to not cause weight loss. Even though fat is an insanely dense energy source, cutting it out of your diet leads to GAINING weight. If calorie in/calorie out worked then obesity wouldn't be a problem in the USA because 99% of obese people have been treated that way.
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    For instance, a low fat diet has been shown to not cause weight loss. Literally every diet has been shown to cause weight loss if paired with a caloric deficit... Low carb. Low fat. Low protein. No fruits. Only fruits. Etc. If calorie in/calorie out worked then obesity wouldn't be a problem in the USA because 99% of obese people have been treated that way. The types of fat and carbs in your diet matter. You can eat healthy carbs all day (i.e., vegetables) and not gain weight over a year, or eat unhealthy fats (i.e., trans fats) and gain 10 pounds in a week.
  - dkarl 7y ago
    Low fat diets were the conventional wisdom for quite a long period of time. Lots of people got lean and athletic on them and still do. > If calorie in/calorie out worked then obesity wouldn't be a problem in the USA because 99% of obese people have been treated that way. There are two ways of looking at whether a diet "works." First, what happens when a person actually follows the diet. This is what most people are curious about. Second, what happens when you tell a person to follow the diet. This is what all the scientific papers are written about because it's what doctors, public health experts, and other researchers care about. Don't get the two mixed up. From the first point of view, there's a wide variety of very different diets that "work." From the second point of view, basically nothing works, and there is a never-ending (re)search in which occasionally somebody announces weak evidence that the diet du jour is better than yesterday's favored diet, but there's no reason to believe the current conventional wisdom will last any longer than previous expert consensuses such as the need to eat low-fat.
  - austhrow743 7y ago
    >If calorie in/calorie out worked then obesity wouldn't be a problem in the USA because 99% of obese people have been treated that way. Sticking to diets is really really hard.
- exolymph 7y ago
  Eating low carb or keto is an appetite hack. It makes the caloric deficit easier to tolerate.
  - blaser-waffle 7y ago
    Keto definitely does not. I craved me some pizza pretty hard for a long time, even after getting over the initial adjustment.
imgabe 7y ago
How did you conclude this wasn't just water weight? Weight loss like that is almost always water weight. A pound of fat is about 3500 calories. To lose 10 lbs of fat in 2 weeks, you would need a deficit of 2500 calories per day in order for that loss to be purely fat. Unless you are training for the Olympics, that doesn't seem likely.
- EvanAnderson 7y ago
  A nit to pick: 1 pound of fat is commonly regarded as 3,500 (kilo) calories.
  - imgabe 7y ago
    Thanks, I must have misremembered the number from somewhere. I updated my post. It's still a larger deficit than seems reasonable.
- vonmoltke 7y ago
  > A pound of fat is about 6000 calories. Where did you get that number from? Pure fat is approximately 9 calories per gram, which is 9000 calories per kilogram or ~4090 calories per pound. Body fat is around 87% pure fat, meaning a pound of body fat is roughly 3600 calories. Thus, the necessary deficit for 10 pounds in two weeks is about 2571. Still pretty high, but well under Olympic training levels.
  - imgabe 7y ago
    Yeah I mixed that up. Edited.
- raintrees 7y ago
  My jeans are now loose, as well. I can no longer "pinch an inch" (or two) as the popular saying went. I have one of those scales that computes body fat percentage based on resistance - It may be rather inaccurate, as some have suggested, but for what it is worth, it is also suggesting my body fat is going down ever so slightly. Theoretically this is probably due to my body now consuming fat as fuel instead of carbohydrates. And although I am now increasing my fat intake, (hopefully) my body will continue to utilize the various places it has stored adipose fat in the past (around organs being the decidedly more dangerous form). So I am assuming, based on those measurements, that some of the weight loss is due to fat consumption, even if the lion's share is water weight. I will soon have to punch another hole in my leather belts, at this rate (already loose fitting)...

leshow 7y ago

All that's telling you is that you're in a caloric deficit, which is probably a result of restricting the food groups you are eating. You often see this with people who do a low carb diet. They lose a bunch of weight initially, and think it was because carbohydrates were making them fat. The reality is they just eliminated one of the 3 big macronutrients, and as a result their caloric intake went down.

kareemm 7y ago
I’m not sure this is true. As you ramp down eg carbs you ramp up protein and fat, sometimes significantly. It’s not clear that a caloric deficit is the reason you’re losing weight.
- phkahler 7y ago
  There are a lot of people, especially on HN, that think delta_weight = calories_in - calories_burned is all there is to it. There is a lot of truth in that, but it seems to not be the whole story. Some eating habits cause us to eat more or less, while others seem to change our metabolism. What you eat and when you eat it seem to make a difference beyond just that simple equation.
  - anthonypasq 7y ago
    > What you eat and when you eat it seem to make a difference beyond just that simple equation. evidence?
    - Yeehaw789 7y ago
      Google epigenetics
      - naasking 7y ago
        It doesn't change the fundamental principles though. Meal timing and composition can affect how your body burns those calories (resting metabolic rate, thermic effect of food, etc.), but they're relatively minor effects overall. At best, meal composition and timing can improve adherence, and that's a very important factor.
        jjeaff 7y ago
        Minor effects that can have drastic effects over the long term. I have seen plenty of people wax about how metabolic variation in healthy people is only a few percentages. Well 2% is a HUGE difference. That means if two people eat exactly the same diet and same level of activity, assuming a 2000 calorie daily intake, the person with a 2% slower metabolism is going to be 40 lbs heavier over a 10 year period.
        naasking 7y ago
        Metabolic rate is not static. That 2% difference would not persist beyond a short time frame. Both bodies would down regulate metabolism to roughly the same levels given the same caloric deficit over time. One might change faster than the other, but the differences aren't as significant over longer time frames as you imply.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - 7y ago
- anthonypasq 7y ago
  > It’s not clear that a caloric deficit is the reason you’re losing weight. umm what... That is the only way to lose lean body mass. You should be thinking "its not clear that removing carbs is reason you're losing weight." Your bayesian priors are completely backwards. The reality is that protein and fat are more satiating so people eat less and lose weight when they cut out carbs.
  - kareemm 7y ago
    CICO is too simple a model. Satiety is a factor but it’s facile to say fat satiates more so you eat fewer calories. If I understand it correctly that’s not how leptin works (satiety hormone). It doesn’t trigger at eg 500 calories regardless of which macro you ate. In reality it’s more nuanced: “It is true that fat has more calories than carbohydrates, including sugar. But by that logic, a sugary beverage is better for you than a handful of nuts. That’s just not what the unbiased studies have shown. Looking only at calories ignores the metabolic effects of each calorie; the source of the calorie changes how you digest it and how you retrieve energy from it.” From https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/theres-no-sugar-coating-it-all-calories-are-not-created-equal-2016110410602 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/theres-no-sugar-coating-...
    - leshow 7y ago
      I wouldnt claim that fat satiation causes someone to eat fewer calories either. But I disagree that the quote you presented somehow claims that a person can lose weight while not being in a deficit. It's physically impossible. That doesn't mean other processes aren't going on, or that you shouldn't consider other things like macronutrients and micronutrients when trying to construct a "healthy" diet.
      - gamblor956 7y ago
        It's definitely possible to lose weight without being in a deficit of calories. For example, insufficient protein (or protein precursors like amino acids) can cause the breakdown of muscle, which is denser and weighs more than fat. You'd have to have a sizable excess of calories to have the fat storage to cancel out the loss of muscle mass.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- vorpalhex 7y ago
  All weight loss is due to caloric deficit in the end. There's no magic from eating fat/protein/carbs. It does happen in the US that most of our carb heavy food is also very calorie dense and doesn't give us a lot of satiety, so by targeting low carb it's easier to be in a calorie deficit (which is why I do low carb).
  - sorenn111 7y ago
    This statement neglects the role that hormones and other bodily functions play in homeostasis. Calorie-in calorie-out has not really stood the test of time/testing. The body can save calories in a number of weird ways when it needs to
    - vorpalhex 7y ago
      I'd love to see some research supporting that statement because caloric restriction has been consistently upheld by longitudinal analysis and meta-analysis. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31303390 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31303390
    - leshow 7y ago
      Just because overall energy balance will determine whether you're generally losing or gaining weight doesn't mean hormones aren't important, or that macro/micros aren't also important. I'm not sure what you're basing the fact that energy balance hasn't "stood the test of time". It's been well researched for decades.
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    All weight loss is due to caloric deficit in the end. Not true. It's possible to lose different types of weight (i.e., muscle or bone) due to the body's inability to repair such tissue in the absence of proper diet sources. For example, if you drink 2000 calories/day as your only food source, you will lose bone mass and muscle mass over time, and the fat stored by your body (if any) will weigh less than the bone or muscle mass lost. There's no magic from eating fat/protein/carbs. Fat, carbs, and protein all have different roles in the body. Luckily, our diets generally get enough of all 3 that it's not that much of an issue...but lots of research shows that having the optimal balance of FPC for your current body condition and activity results can drastically affect performance, sleep, behavior, etc.
magashna 7y ago
It's also due to feeling fuller. Eating a diet rich in fat rather than carbs leaves you feeling full with less calories.
raintrees 7y ago
According to several authors I have recently read, the trick is along the lines of Keto - Switching the body from carb burning to fat burning for energy. And as stated in comments below, the hormonal differences are also claimed to have a bigger influence than just calorie counting. How those calories are processed (glucose versus fructose versus sucrose - all with potentially different mechanisms, from what I have learned) are treated differently by my body than how saturated fats are treated. For example, there seems to be proof that saturated fat processing by the body sets the satiety signal more thoroughly than carbohydrate processing, and for longer duration. I feel less hungry, sated, so I eat less. And now when I eat, I focus more on the inclusiveness/variety of the source foods to make sure I am getting a more rounded spectrum of vitamins, minerals, and other vital components our bodies seem to require for good health. It has so far been a fun experiment, unlike other attempts I have made in the past.
foxyv 7y ago
Then why doesn't it work in the other configurations? For instance, a low fat diet has been shown to not cause weight loss. Even though fat is an insanely dense energy source, cutting it out of your diet leads to GAINING weight. If calorie in/calorie out worked then obesity wouldn't be a problem in the USA because 99% of obese people have been treated that way.
- gamblor956 7y ago
  For instance, a low fat diet has been shown to not cause weight loss. Literally every diet has been shown to cause weight loss if paired with a caloric deficit... Low carb. Low fat. Low protein. No fruits. Only fruits. Etc. If calorie in/calorie out worked then obesity wouldn't be a problem in the USA because 99% of obese people have been treated that way. The types of fat and carbs in your diet matter. You can eat healthy carbs all day (i.e., vegetables) and not gain weight over a year, or eat unhealthy fats (i.e., trans fats) and gain 10 pounds in a week.
- dkarl 7y ago
  Low fat diets were the conventional wisdom for quite a long period of time. Lots of people got lean and athletic on them and still do. > If calorie in/calorie out worked then obesity wouldn't be a problem in the USA because 99% of obese people have been treated that way. There are two ways of looking at whether a diet "works." First, what happens when a person actually follows the diet. This is what most people are curious about. Second, what happens when you tell a person to follow the diet. This is what all the scientific papers are written about because it's what doctors, public health experts, and other researchers care about. Don't get the two mixed up. From the first point of view, there's a wide variety of very different diets that "work." From the second point of view, basically nothing works, and there is a never-ending (re)search in which occasionally somebody announces weak evidence that the diet du jour is better than yesterday's favored diet, but there's no reason to believe the current conventional wisdom will last any longer than previous expert consensuses such as the need to eat low-fat.
- austhrow743 7y ago
  >If calorie in/calorie out worked then obesity wouldn't be a problem in the USA because 99% of obese people have been treated that way. Sticking to diets is really really hard.
exolymph 7y ago
Eating low carb or keto is an appetite hack. It makes the caloric deficit easier to tolerate.
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  Keto definitely does not. I craved me some pizza pretty hard for a long time, even after getting over the initial adjustment.

imgabe 7y ago

How did you conclude this wasn't just water weight? Weight loss like that is almost always water weight. A pound of fat is about 3500 calories. To lose 10 lbs of fat in 2 weeks, you would need a deficit of 2500 calories per day in order for that loss to be purely fat. Unless you are training for the Olympics, that doesn't seem likely.

EvanAnderson 7y ago
A nit to pick: 1 pound of fat is commonly regarded as 3,500 (kilo) calories.
- imgabe 7y ago
  Thanks, I must have misremembered the number from somewhere. I updated my post. It's still a larger deficit than seems reasonable.
vonmoltke 7y ago
> A pound of fat is about 6000 calories. Where did you get that number from? Pure fat is approximately 9 calories per gram, which is 9000 calories per kilogram or ~4090 calories per pound. Body fat is around 87% pure fat, meaning a pound of body fat is roughly 3600 calories. Thus, the necessary deficit for 10 pounds in two weeks is about 2571. Still pretty high, but well under Olympic training levels.
- imgabe 7y ago
  Yeah I mixed that up. Edited.
raintrees 7y ago
My jeans are now loose, as well. I can no longer "pinch an inch" (or two) as the popular saying went. I have one of those scales that computes body fat percentage based on resistance - It may be rather inaccurate, as some have suggested, but for what it is worth, it is also suggesting my body fat is going down ever so slightly. Theoretically this is probably due to my body now consuming fat as fuel instead of carbohydrates. And although I am now increasing my fat intake, (hopefully) my body will continue to utilize the various places it has stored adipose fat in the past (around organs being the decidedly more dangerous form). So I am assuming, based on those measurements, that some of the weight loss is due to fat consumption, even if the lion's share is water weight. I will soon have to punch another hole in my leather belts, at this rate (already loose fitting)...