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In my personal experience, apart from onboarding, "forced" formal mentoring is bullshit and a total waste of time. No one benefits. I totally get the benefits

In my personal experience, apart from onboarding, "forced" formal mentoring is bullshit and a total waste of time. No one benefits. I totally get the benefits of getting advice from more experienced folks, but you can do that ad-hoc so I just don't see the point for formal set ups and have chalked it up as something that someone somewhere in the organisation thinks is useful that everyone should do - kinda like all the bullshit "team work" or "what colour are you"/"look inside yourself" training courses that we are all required to take from time to time but no one actually wants to do and are a 100% totally pointless exercise.

mk89 7y ago
Could you share better your experience? And why do you think it's a pointless exercise?
martijn_himself 7y ago
It's a catch 22 situation because a lot of organisations expect folk to skill up but don't provide a formal structure to do so. I've worked on projects where I was helping out junior developers but criticised because it wasn't a profitable use of my time. I agree with your point about "forced" mentoring though, some people just don't like to mentor so they shouldn't have to, but an organisation should encourage and reward it if it happens voluntary.
Scarblac 7y ago
I struggle with this. We get juniors that really don't know much about programming yet, some that start because they know our domain well and know a bit of Python. There is a lot they should learn that others get from formal education before they start to work. But we don't know how to give structure to it as a company.
- clintonb 7y ago
  If your company cannot train junior engineers, perhaps you shouldn’t hire them. Doing does a disservice to all involved.
  - Scarblac 7y ago
    We don't really have a choice, but I wouldn't say we can't train them. They do improve a lot on their own and on the job. We do a lot of code review and give them time to figure things out, and we're OK at picking the ones who are able to learn like that. I still feel we could have more structured, formal training but don't know how.
nindalf 7y ago
Please don’t state your opinion as gospel truth. In my experience I have benefited from being on both sides of the mentor-mentee relationship. I learned a lot from mentoring an intern, especially.
- glckr 7y ago
  In what way is it stated as gospel truth? It literally starts with "In my personal experience".
  - nighthawk648 7y ago
    In my personal experience I’m not a racist but fucking anyone who is not white. >In what way is it stated as a racist comment? Either you’re a troll, or you just fall into logical fallacy too often. Either case stop contributing.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - nighthawk648 7y ago
      Seriously why the downvotes? Because I said to stop contributing? Or because you have confirmation bias with op and are angry at dissenters? It makes no sense. I was proving how commenters comment was inaccurate. You can say one thing at the beginning and convey a totally different attitude at the end. I don’t understand the downvots.
    - dang 7y ago
      Whoa, personal attacks aren't ok and will get you banned here. Would you mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here? We'd be grateful. Please read them all the way to the end, because you broke them with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21514770 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21514770 as well.
      - 7y ago
lukevdp 7y ago
The best kind is organic, but sometimes things need a little bit of a formal kick start.

mk89 7y ago

Could you share better your experience? And why do you think it's a pointless exercise?

martijn_himself 7y ago

It's a catch 22 situation because a lot of organisations expect folk to skill up but don't provide a formal structure to do so. I've worked on projects where I was helping out junior developers but criticised because it wasn't a profitable use of my time. I agree with your point about "forced" mentoring though, some people just don't like to mentor so they shouldn't have to, but an organisation should encourage and reward it if it happens voluntary.

Scarblac 7y ago

I struggle with this. We get juniors that really don't know much about programming yet, some that start because they know our domain well and know a bit of Python. There is a lot they should learn that others get from formal education before they start to work. But we don't know how to give structure to it as a company.

clintonb 7y ago
If your company cannot train junior engineers, perhaps you shouldn’t hire them. Doing does a disservice to all involved.
- Scarblac 7y ago
  We don't really have a choice, but I wouldn't say we can't train them. They do improve a lot on their own and on the job. We do a lot of code review and give them time to figure things out, and we're OK at picking the ones who are able to learn like that. I still feel we could have more structured, formal training but don't know how.

nindalf 7y ago

Please don’t state your opinion as gospel truth. In my experience I have benefited from being on both sides of the mentor-mentee relationship. I learned a lot from mentoring an intern, especially.

glckr 7y ago
In what way is it stated as gospel truth? It literally starts with "In my personal experience".
- nighthawk648 7y ago
  In my personal experience I’m not a racist but fucking anyone who is not white. >In what way is it stated as a racist comment? Either you’re a troll, or you just fall into logical fallacy too often. Either case stop contributing.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - nighthawk648 7y ago
    Seriously why the downvotes? Because I said to stop contributing? Or because you have confirmation bias with op and are angry at dissenters? It makes no sense. I was proving how commenters comment was inaccurate. You can say one thing at the beginning and convey a totally different attitude at the end. I don’t understand the downvots.
  - dang 7y ago
    Whoa, personal attacks aren't ok and will get you banned here. Would you mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here? We'd be grateful. Please read them all the way to the end, because you broke them with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21514770 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21514770 as well.
    - 7y ago

lukevdp 7y ago

The best kind is organic, but sometimes things need a little bit of a formal kick start.