4 ms·

This pretty much describes the end of the internet as we know it. Even before AI generated "content", the internet has become lower signal-to-noise as time has

by blunte 7y ago

This pretty much describes the end of the internet as we know it. Even before AI generated "content", the internet has become lower signal-to-noise as time has moved forward. It is already the case that for many everyday searches I do, I am forced to be very creative in my search phrase in hopes of filtering out the garbage sites that manage to dominate the first results page. Watching less tech-saavy people use computers (such as elder family) is enlightening and frightening. They either cannot tell real content from fake content, or worse they are satisfied with what they get from obviously suspicious sites. Maybe my concerns of polluted websites are less relevant considering the general population is getting more of their "information" from within Facebook rather than even going to search engines (of which they use the default for their browser!).

seibelj 7y ago
New companies and technologies will be invented to solve this problem. Every problem has a solution. You are falling into the same trap that has caught humans since the dawn of man. The printing press, the car, the internet, and now “deep fakes” will cause hand wringing but will not destroy us. Just give it time.
- guelo 7y ago
  You don't know if your extrapolation will be true. Maybe this tech is different. There's no doubt that it will change society. It is a revolution. It's impossible to predict the outcome of revolutions.
- 2sk21 7y ago
  Only if there is money to be made in filtering out fakes. It has been repeatedly demonstrated that most people will not pay for news in general.
- glenstein 7y ago
  >The printing press, the car, the internet These all came with real tradeoffs and we've just accepted them. The printing press and the internet, in their own ways, sped up the world and shortened attention spans. Cars changed cities. The benefits have been there, but we've engaged with or ignored the harms posed by changes in different ways, and the same unconscious trade is going to happen again.
- kevingadd 7y ago
  Did we solve car accidents yet? I mean, people are working on it with self-driving cars, but we've been paying a death tax for the proliferation of automobiles for something like a hundred years now. Big pile of dead bodies waiting for that one new technological solution... Instead we've been chipping away at the massive set of problems cars created one at a time, because we allowed the problems to appear and we got used to cars. Meanwhile, new problems appear that we can't easily fix - people still look at their phones while driving and that wasn't an issue ~20 years ago.
Iv 7y ago
We quickly need government-backed ID systems and reputation economics.
- greesil 7y ago
  Or sequence your DNA every time you put content on the web to prove you are a human :)
  - Iv 7y ago
    Right, like we can't make fake human DNA sequences :-)
  - drusepth 7y ago
    That's pretty unfair to the non-humans that put out quality content, though.
- blunte 7y ago
  While it may appear from my comments that I trust no government, that is not the case. However, I don't believe that most governments are immune to corruption or manipulation. So how could we prevent a reputation system from being manipulated for or against certain people?
  - Iv 7y ago
    You have IDs from different governments. Right now Estonia allows any non-citizens to get an Estonian-approved crypto-token to prove their identity online. They'll deliver it after a thoroughly check of your passport. Now, you can get fake passports from corrupt governments, but I would argue that the effort, cost and risk to do that is a magnitude higher than what it takes to farm karma on reddit from a troll farm.
    - tluyben2 7y ago
      Maybe some kind of reputation related ID verification; get more 'verified ID' points when you get officially identified by different institutions or states. Let's say I have a Dutch passport, Dutch ID card, Dutch driver's license, Estonian ID card, I pay taxes (also requires ID) in NL, Estonia & PT, I have been to countries where the ID verifications are very stringent and I have been vetted by 20 banks around the world. That would create some score that identifies me as me. You 'only' need some worldwide decentralized system that recognizes this; or maybe just a per country system that works like that; if you don't trust country X to give me the correct score (because maybe I am a journalist with some negative stories about their gov so they fob the numbers and are known for that), you request a score from another country; if I can provide that, you can decide if you trust that I am human and me. The number won't tell what you were vetted for, just that you were and higher=better. EDIT: > Now, you can get fake passports from corrupt governments, But these are known for being corrupt, so your score would already be lowered considerable with a passport from there...
friendlybus 7y ago
It will force the rise of the editor again. We replaced him with aggregation, but now that is mostly noise we need the editor again to ensure quality. Journalism will have changed but it will come back in walled off online gardens or whatever.
- 2sk21 7y ago
  I think the model will be the way Kosher certification works. There are multiple certification authorities and observant Jews can select which certifier they agree with.
  - kevingadd 7y ago
    If anything's actually going to create that echo chamber people shout about, it's this. Unfortunately platform operators have proven that they can't be counted on to actually moderate (fake content is big money) and we certainly don't want the government to be responsible for it.

by blunte 7y ago

seibelj 7y ago

New companies and technologies will be invented to solve this problem. Every problem has a solution. You are falling into the same trap that has caught humans since the dawn of man. The printing press, the car, the internet, and now “deep fakes” will cause hand wringing but will not destroy us. Just give it time.

guelo 7y ago
You don't know if your extrapolation will be true. Maybe this tech is different. There's no doubt that it will change society. It is a revolution. It's impossible to predict the outcome of revolutions.
2sk21 7y ago
Only if there is money to be made in filtering out fakes. It has been repeatedly demonstrated that most people will not pay for news in general.
glenstein 7y ago
>The printing press, the car, the internet These all came with real tradeoffs and we've just accepted them. The printing press and the internet, in their own ways, sped up the world and shortened attention spans. Cars changed cities. The benefits have been there, but we've engaged with or ignored the harms posed by changes in different ways, and the same unconscious trade is going to happen again.
kevingadd 7y ago
Did we solve car accidents yet? I mean, people are working on it with self-driving cars, but we've been paying a death tax for the proliferation of automobiles for something like a hundred years now. Big pile of dead bodies waiting for that one new technological solution... Instead we've been chipping away at the massive set of problems cars created one at a time, because we allowed the problems to appear and we got used to cars. Meanwhile, new problems appear that we can't easily fix - people still look at their phones while driving and that wasn't an issue ~20 years ago.

Iv 7y ago

We quickly need government-backed ID systems and reputation economics.

greesil 7y ago
Or sequence your DNA every time you put content on the web to prove you are a human :)
- Iv 7y ago
  Right, like we can't make fake human DNA sequences :-)
- drusepth 7y ago
  That's pretty unfair to the non-humans that put out quality content, though.
blunte 7y ago
While it may appear from my comments that I trust no government, that is not the case. However, I don't believe that most governments are immune to corruption or manipulation. So how could we prevent a reputation system from being manipulated for or against certain people?
- Iv 7y ago
  You have IDs from different governments. Right now Estonia allows any non-citizens to get an Estonian-approved crypto-token to prove their identity online. They'll deliver it after a thoroughly check of your passport. Now, you can get fake passports from corrupt governments, but I would argue that the effort, cost and risk to do that is a magnitude higher than what it takes to farm karma on reddit from a troll farm.
  - tluyben2 7y ago
    Maybe some kind of reputation related ID verification; get more 'verified ID' points when you get officially identified by different institutions or states. Let's say I have a Dutch passport, Dutch ID card, Dutch driver's license, Estonian ID card, I pay taxes (also requires ID) in NL, Estonia & PT, I have been to countries where the ID verifications are very stringent and I have been vetted by 20 banks around the world. That would create some score that identifies me as me. You 'only' need some worldwide decentralized system that recognizes this; or maybe just a per country system that works like that; if you don't trust country X to give me the correct score (because maybe I am a journalist with some negative stories about their gov so they fob the numbers and are known for that), you request a score from another country; if I can provide that, you can decide if you trust that I am human and me. The number won't tell what you were vetted for, just that you were and higher=better. EDIT: > Now, you can get fake passports from corrupt governments, But these are known for being corrupt, so your score would already be lowered considerable with a passport from there...

friendlybus 7y ago

It will force the rise of the editor again. We replaced him with aggregation, but now that is mostly noise we need the editor again to ensure quality. Journalism will have changed but it will come back in walled off online gardens or whatever.

2sk21 7y ago
I think the model will be the way Kosher certification works. There are multiple certification authorities and observant Jews can select which certifier they agree with.
- kevingadd 7y ago
  If anything's actually going to create that echo chamber people shout about, it's this. Unfortunately platform operators have proven that they can't be counted on to actually moderate (fake content is big money) and we certainly don't want the government to be responsible for it.