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Yes. As someone who has never dove deep into python, but has had some contact with it: the package manager ecosystem is the #1 thing keeping me away from it. n

Yes. As someone who has never dove deep into python, but has had some contact with it: the package manager ecosystem is the #1 thing keeping me away from it. npm sucks and all, but at least it just works and doesn't get in my way as much.

kart23 7y ago
Coming the opposite way: having started programming on python and only started doing node.js stuff recently, npm is awesome.
- GuyOnMySpace 7y ago
  100% agree. Coming from the scientific computing realm, I've only ever done "real" code in Python until a couple of weeks ago when I was forced to do some work in Typescript. Once I got over the initial worries about the best method to install npm to avoid Python-esque problems and gave nvm a try, I was very pleasantly surprised by the package management process and was able to just get on with the work. I've tried various Python env management solutions in the past (mostly leaning towards conda), but had recently settled on just using separate LXC/LXD containers for each project.
heyoni 7y ago
What does npm do that python can’t? I’m curious.
- Too 7y ago
  npm is equivalent to combining pip and virtualenv into a single tool. This gives better ergonomics when switching between projects since you never have to "activate" your environment, it's always activated when standing in the project directory.
  - maksimum 7y ago
    That does sound convenient. I wonder if the virtualenv aspect is relevant though, i.e. do people really deploy npm apps outside of a container/isolation layer? I imagine if you're deploying docker, you probably should be developing in docker (e.g. using PyCharm's remote interpreter/docker interpreter integration).
  - Pandabob 7y ago
    Isn't this what Pipenv does? What has been a downer for me is that many of the cloud providers do not support pipfiles in their serverless app services (Elastic Beanstalk, App Engine etc.)
    - EdwardDiego 7y ago
      Yep, correct. Unfortunately I had quite a few issues with pipenv - mainly around its relationship with pip.
    - Robthedog 7y ago
      I agree completely.
    - Pandabob 7y ago
      On second thought, at least on GCP I should be able to put the pipfiles into .gcloudignore and just update the requirements.txt file with each new commit using git hooks, build scripts or a ci/cd tool.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
int_19h 7y ago
Anecdotally, I've had more Node packages with native code in them fail to build for me when installed via npm, than Python packages with native code fail when installed via pip. That whole node-gyp thing is a huge mess.
j88439h84 7y ago
Poetry does all that stuff, as discussed in the article.
workthrowaway 7y ago
> npm sucks and all, but at least it just works and doesn't get in my way as much. used many package managers: pip, gem, go, npm, composer, etc... npm is the only one i have recent memories of having to kill & the only one that makes the fan go off (well okay most c/c++ do that too...) quite frankly surprised by what i am seeing about python here. i have never been into the new stuff, pipenv, poetry, pipx, etc... maybe that's where the bad experience is coming from? i even don't know when and why it got so complex...

kart23 7y ago

Coming the opposite way: having started programming on python and only started doing node.js stuff recently, npm is awesome.

GuyOnMySpace 7y ago
100% agree. Coming from the scientific computing realm, I've only ever done "real" code in Python until a couple of weeks ago when I was forced to do some work in Typescript. Once I got over the initial worries about the best method to install npm to avoid Python-esque problems and gave nvm a try, I was very pleasantly surprised by the package management process and was able to just get on with the work. I've tried various Python env management solutions in the past (mostly leaning towards conda), but had recently settled on just using separate LXC/LXD containers for each project.

heyoni 7y ago

What does npm do that python can’t? I’m curious.

Too 7y ago
npm is equivalent to combining pip and virtualenv into a single tool. This gives better ergonomics when switching between projects since you never have to "activate" your environment, it's always activated when standing in the project directory.
- maksimum 7y ago
  That does sound convenient. I wonder if the virtualenv aspect is relevant though, i.e. do people really deploy npm apps outside of a container/isolation layer? I imagine if you're deploying docker, you probably should be developing in docker (e.g. using PyCharm's remote interpreter/docker interpreter integration).
- Pandabob 7y ago
  Isn't this what Pipenv does? What has been a downer for me is that many of the cloud providers do not support pipfiles in their serverless app services (Elastic Beanstalk, App Engine etc.)
  - EdwardDiego 7y ago
    Yep, correct. Unfortunately I had quite a few issues with pipenv - mainly around its relationship with pip.
  - Robthedog 7y ago
    I agree completely.
  - Pandabob 7y ago
    On second thought, at least on GCP I should be able to put the pipfiles into .gcloudignore and just update the requirements.txt file with each new commit using git hooks, build scripts or a ci/cd tool.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

int_19h 7y ago

Anecdotally, I've had more Node packages with native code in them fail to build for me when installed via npm, than Python packages with native code fail when installed via pip. That whole node-gyp thing is a huge mess.

j88439h84 7y ago

Poetry does all that stuff, as discussed in the article.

workthrowaway 7y ago

> npm sucks and all, but at least it just works and doesn't get in my way as much. used many package managers: pip, gem, go, npm, composer, etc... npm is the only one i have recent memories of having to kill & the only one that makes the fan go off (well okay most c/c++ do that too...) quite frankly surprised by what i am seeing about python here. i have never been into the new stuff, pipenv, poetry, pipx, etc... maybe that's where the bad experience is coming from? i even don't know when and why it got so complex...