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>When there’s no return on it, it’s just being hard on oneself for no benefit. If I didn't work hard every day I'd have no home, no food, I wouldn't be able to

>When there’s no return on it, it’s just being hard on oneself for no benefit. If I didn't work hard every day I'd have no home, no food, I wouldn't be able to respond to this comment because I'm using a phone with internet I pay for with my work, I wouldn't be sitting on a ferry right now on my way from visiting family because I paid for the fare with money from my work. I'm not sure I understand the logic behind no returns. Sure it doesn't make me rich, but it stops me from being homeless and starving and provides me with what I need to love comfortably and not worry most of the time.

andrei_says_ 7y ago
The logic of no returns: it is very common in the US for salaried workers to put over 60 hours per week but only get paid for 40. It is also very common to continue to respond to emails during non-work hours and vacation days. hard work for free, with no returns for the person performing it.
- jpindar 7y ago
  It's you (and perhaps your choice of employer) who choose it measure work in hours. I choose to measure it in some combination of effort and results, depending on the circumstances.
- grawprog 7y ago
  That's the thing, I don't work for free. If I'm working i expect to be paid. If an employer wanted me to answer emails or do other things outside the time I'm at work it'd get added to the hours. I've done consulting work, I'm fairly good at tracking hours and i've told employers that have asked me this before, fairly bluntly, that I'm being paid for it or not doing it and it's always either been I don't do it or they pay me.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Here's the problem though: units of work aren't independent. You are in a privileged position to say no to unpaid overtime, but most people on the planet, upon doing so, would likely not just lose the overtime, but also the paid time as well.
    - andrei_says_ 7y ago
      Seems like you presume I speak of paid overtime. In many industries salaried workers don’t get overtime. The financial and tech industries for example. I’m pointing to unpaid overtime and unpaid “email” duty for millions of people.
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  Do you think that hard-working grandfather was salaried? Salaried people have already made it, at least to some degree. Uncompensated work wasn't at all in the scope of hirundo's comment. You injected that idea. Honestly, you come across like a guy with a one-size-fits-all villain, who is just looking for an excuse to unleash a rant against it.

andrei_says_ 7y ago

The logic of no returns: it is very common in the US for salaried workers to put over 60 hours per week but only get paid for 40. It is also very common to continue to respond to emails during non-work hours and vacation days. hard work for free, with no returns for the person performing it.

jpindar 7y ago
It's you (and perhaps your choice of employer) who choose it measure work in hours. I choose to measure it in some combination of effort and results, depending on the circumstances.
grawprog 7y ago
That's the thing, I don't work for free. If I'm working i expect to be paid. If an employer wanted me to answer emails or do other things outside the time I'm at work it'd get added to the hours. I've done consulting work, I'm fairly good at tracking hours and i've told employers that have asked me this before, fairly bluntly, that I'm being paid for it or not doing it and it's always either been I don't do it or they pay me.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  Here's the problem though: units of work aren't independent. You are in a privileged position to say no to unpaid overtime, but most people on the planet, upon doing so, would likely not just lose the overtime, but also the paid time as well.
  - andrei_says_ 7y ago
    Seems like you presume I speak of paid overtime. In many industries salaried workers don’t get overtime. The financial and tech industries for example. I’m pointing to unpaid overtime and unpaid “email” duty for millions of people.
AnimalMuppet 7y ago
Do you think that hard-working grandfather was salaried? Salaried people have already made it, at least to some degree. Uncompensated work wasn't at all in the scope of hirundo's comment. You injected that idea. Honestly, you come across like a guy with a one-size-fits-all villain, who is just looking for an excuse to unleash a rant against it.