4 ms·

> I benefited from a work ethic of a grandfather that knew poverty and hunger... I am not sure who these virtues serve in an economy maximizing extraction from

> I benefited from a work ethic of a grandfather that knew poverty and hunger... I am not sure who these virtues serve in an economy maximizing extraction from the people contributing the work. The working class will always be pushed as much as possible, to the point of breaking, with no benefit to the workers themselves. > It would be better for a child to inherit my father's work ethic than mine. It may be good for them, but only if they work in a scenario where the work adds value for them. Currently someone who knows to define boundaries and not destroy their own life and health in order to let more be extracted from their effort, is a better option.

AnimalMuppet 7y ago
> > I benefited from a work ethic of a grandfather that knew poverty and hunger... > I am not sure who these virtues serve in an economy maximizing extraction from the people contributing the work. The working class will always be pushed as much as possible, to the point of breaking, with no benefit to the workers themselves. I call a bit of baloney on the last quoted sentence. You are significantly overstating your case. (You have one, but you're overstating it.) Still you have a bit of a point, from the point of view of the workers as a class. From the point of view of an individual worker and his/her family, though, hard work leaves them better off than they would be in the absence of the hard work. That leaves the worker and the family in a better position then they otherwise would be. Hence, "I benefited..."
- andrei_says_ 7y ago
  hard work by definition is hard on the person performing it. When there’s no return on it, it’s just being hard on oneself for no benefit. creating the habit to assess the benefits is more important than blindly working hard. Otherwise it’s just getting sick, exhausted, and having no life for no rational reason.
  - grawprog 7y ago
    >When there’s no return on it, it’s just being hard on oneself for no benefit. If I didn't work hard every day I'd have no home, no food, I wouldn't be able to respond to this comment because I'm using a phone with internet I pay for with my work, I wouldn't be sitting on a ferry right now on my way from visiting family because I paid for the fare with money from my work. I'm not sure I understand the logic behind no returns. Sure it doesn't make me rich, but it stops me from being homeless and starving and provides me with what I need to love comfortably and not worry most of the time.
    - andrei_says_ 7y ago
      The logic of no returns: it is very common in the US for salaried workers to put over 60 hours per week but only get paid for 40. It is also very common to continue to respond to emails during non-work hours and vacation days. hard work for free, with no returns for the person performing it.
      - jpindar 7y ago
        It's you (and perhaps your choice of employer) who choose it measure work in hours. I choose to measure it in some combination of effort and results, depending on the circumstances.
      - grawprog 7y ago
        That's the thing, I don't work for free. If I'm working i expect to be paid. If an employer wanted me to answer emails or do other things outside the time I'm at work it'd get added to the hours. I've done consulting work, I'm fairly good at tracking hours and i've told employers that have asked me this before, fairly bluntly, that I'm being paid for it or not doing it and it's always either been I don't do it or they pay me.
        TeMPOraL 7y ago
        Here's the problem though: units of work aren't independent. You are in a privileged position to say no to unpaid overtime, but most people on the planet, upon doing so, would likely not just lose the overtime, but also the paid time as well.
- pizza 7y ago
  As my teacher once said the only thing worse than being exploited under capitalism is not being exploited under capitalism

AnimalMuppet 7y ago

> > I benefited from a work ethic of a grandfather that knew poverty and hunger... > I am not sure who these virtues serve in an economy maximizing extraction from the people contributing the work. The working class will always be pushed as much as possible, to the point of breaking, with no benefit to the workers themselves. I call a bit of baloney on the last quoted sentence. You are significantly overstating your case. (You have one, but you're overstating it.) Still you have a bit of a point, from the point of view of the workers as a class. From the point of view of an individual worker and his/her family, though, hard work leaves them better off than they would be in the absence of the hard work. That leaves the worker and the family in a better position then they otherwise would be. Hence, "I benefited..."

andrei_says_ 7y ago
hard work by definition is hard on the person performing it. When there’s no return on it, it’s just being hard on oneself for no benefit. creating the habit to assess the benefits is more important than blindly working hard. Otherwise it’s just getting sick, exhausted, and having no life for no rational reason.
- grawprog 7y ago
  >When there’s no return on it, it’s just being hard on oneself for no benefit. If I didn't work hard every day I'd have no home, no food, I wouldn't be able to respond to this comment because I'm using a phone with internet I pay for with my work, I wouldn't be sitting on a ferry right now on my way from visiting family because I paid for the fare with money from my work. I'm not sure I understand the logic behind no returns. Sure it doesn't make me rich, but it stops me from being homeless and starving and provides me with what I need to love comfortably and not worry most of the time.
  - andrei_says_ 7y ago
    The logic of no returns: it is very common in the US for salaried workers to put over 60 hours per week but only get paid for 40. It is also very common to continue to respond to emails during non-work hours and vacation days. hard work for free, with no returns for the person performing it.
    - jpindar 7y ago
      It's you (and perhaps your choice of employer) who choose it measure work in hours. I choose to measure it in some combination of effort and results, depending on the circumstances.
    - grawprog 7y ago
      That's the thing, I don't work for free. If I'm working i expect to be paid. If an employer wanted me to answer emails or do other things outside the time I'm at work it'd get added to the hours. I've done consulting work, I'm fairly good at tracking hours and i've told employers that have asked me this before, fairly bluntly, that I'm being paid for it or not doing it and it's always either been I don't do it or they pay me.
      - TeMPOraL 7y ago
        Here's the problem though: units of work aren't independent. You are in a privileged position to say no to unpaid overtime, but most people on the planet, upon doing so, would likely not just lose the overtime, but also the paid time as well.
pizza 7y ago
As my teacher once said the only thing worse than being exploited under capitalism is not being exploited under capitalism