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This will also push the front-line of war back in time, because democracy is vulnerable to psy-ops. For example, there is a lot of hatred brewing against the C

This will also push the front-line of war back in time, because democracy is vulnerable to psy-ops. For example, there is a lot of hatred brewing against the Chinese government caused by unverifiable claims of concentration camps. There doesn't need to be a state actor behind it. There doesn't even need to be a conspiracy. Individual people are willing to cause plausibly deniable harm for even imaginary profit. They can exploit pagerank-type algorithms based on intuition alone. Pagerank algos aren't designed for war but it is difficult to claim they didn't have a contribution in the current round of unrest in the Middle East. The exploitation of psychology for mass-marketing has been going on since shortly after WWII. Currently market forces which are also algorithmic in nature are pushing to make mobile devices ever more addictive and it would be surprising if using AI to accelerate this process is a new idea. With 2 billion users and no ethics Facebook has become a kind of shadow government, with the power to have non-users like me frozen-out by omission by my own family. It is crazy not to be terrified of what they have done.

deleted 7y ago
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arcticfox 7y ago
> For example, there is a lot of hatred brewing against the Chinese government caused by unverifiable claims of concentration camps. "unverifiable claims" - what? Even the Chinese government admits they exist/existed [0]. Overall I think your point that it's overwhelmingly easy to confuse the truth these days is exactly right, but you're the subject in your example instead of the people you point the finger at. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/30/world/asia/china-xinjiang.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/30/world/asia/china-xinjiang...
- ganzuul 7y ago
  Concentration camps, not internment camps. Different claims. There are verifiable claims and then there are claims which are not verified. People look terrible when sick and dying and most people overlook that the being sick and dying is happening while receiving medical care in a hospital setting. The images from the Nazi concentration camps is something completely different. The same thing happened after WWII where some people tacked on unverifiable claims to the long list of Nazi atrocities. A well-known debunked claim although not of atrocities is by someone claiming he was nasally administering cocaine to Hitler. Claims like these require investigation and detract from attention given to real leads, but that takes work and people instead form mobs and repeat the most relatable claims. - I don't see why I need to spell out how to decouple my personal experience from the narrative I presented. Seems trivial to generalize.
  - stonogo 7y ago
    The difference between "concentration camp" and "internment camp" is one of branding and there is no practical difference.
    - mensetmanusman 7y ago
      The common parlance in the US is that concentration camp means ‘what happened during ww2’ because that is how the education system explained the term.
  - nl 7y ago
    The Xinjiang camps appear to be nearly identical in purpose and behaviour to the original concentration camps used by the British at the end of the Boer war[1]. The Chinese ones do not seem to be doing mass execution, unlike the Nazi ones. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_concentration_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_concentration_camps
scarmig 7y ago
"Unverifiable" because the PRC doesn't let independent journalists and monitors have access to the camps.
- ganzuul 7y ago
  The unverifiable images I saw was of sick people in hospitals, and one emancipated man not inside a hospital but elsewhere. Internment camps are bad of course, but few people seem to actually have seen the pictures taken of the holocaust. The difference is obvious. Getting independent journalists on site seems urgent.

deleted 7y ago

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arcticfox 7y ago

> For example, there is a lot of hatred brewing against the Chinese government caused by unverifiable claims of concentration camps. "unverifiable claims" - what? Even the Chinese government admits they exist/existed [0]. Overall I think your point that it's overwhelmingly easy to confuse the truth these days is exactly right, but you're the subject in your example instead of the people you point the finger at. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/30/world/asia/china-xinjiang.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/30/world/asia/china-xinjiang...

ganzuul 7y ago
Concentration camps, not internment camps. Different claims. There are verifiable claims and then there are claims which are not verified. People look terrible when sick and dying and most people overlook that the being sick and dying is happening while receiving medical care in a hospital setting. The images from the Nazi concentration camps is something completely different. The same thing happened after WWII where some people tacked on unverifiable claims to the long list of Nazi atrocities. A well-known debunked claim although not of atrocities is by someone claiming he was nasally administering cocaine to Hitler. Claims like these require investigation and detract from attention given to real leads, but that takes work and people instead form mobs and repeat the most relatable claims. - I don't see why I need to spell out how to decouple my personal experience from the narrative I presented. Seems trivial to generalize.
- stonogo 7y ago
  The difference between "concentration camp" and "internment camp" is one of branding and there is no practical difference.
  - mensetmanusman 7y ago
    The common parlance in the US is that concentration camp means ‘what happened during ww2’ because that is how the education system explained the term.
- nl 7y ago
  The Xinjiang camps appear to be nearly identical in purpose and behaviour to the original concentration camps used by the British at the end of the Boer war[1]. The Chinese ones do not seem to be doing mass execution, unlike the Nazi ones. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_concentration_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_concentration_camps

scarmig 7y ago

"Unverifiable" because the PRC doesn't let independent journalists and monitors have access to the camps.

ganzuul 7y ago
The unverifiable images I saw was of sick people in hospitals, and one emancipated man not inside a hospital but elsewhere. Internment camps are bad of course, but few people seem to actually have seen the pictures taken of the holocaust. The difference is obvious. Getting independent journalists on site seems urgent.