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Obviously there is a limit to how many apps you can lose without people abandoning your platform. Windows Phone failed largely for that reason, and Mac has hist

Obviously there is a limit to how many apps you can lose without people abandoning your platform. Windows Phone failed largely for that reason, and Mac has historically suffered for its lack of game support. People don't just blindly buy devices, there is a threshold where they care about support. And also obviously, if literally only one app moved off of Mac, nothing would happen. So what's the threshold? If Blender stopped supporting Mac, would anyone here reconsider using them as a development platform? If Photoshop dropped Mac, would anyone here notice or make a purchasing decision based on that? Is it significant that Photoshop is being shipped for iOS now -- do we expect that professionals will take the platform more seriously because of that?

Razengan 7y ago
> Is it significant that Photoshop is being shipped for iOS now -- do we expect that professionals will take the platform more seriously because of that? The point that you're trying to make and the point I'm trying to make is effectively the same: Apple platforms have no shortage of creative apps, have never had a shortage, and their library of apps and games is always increasing, not decreasing. If Krita abandons Mac, do you think it will hurt Krita more, or Apple, or users? What's more likely: Will people sell off their Mac and buy a PC just to keep using Krita, or would they rather find one of the many other painting apps available for Macs?
- danShumway 7y ago
  I think I'm more bullish on Krita's future than you are. Regardless, we're kind of arguing past each other. If Krita abandons Mac and no one else does, then Mac users won't care. If a bunch of indie games abandon Mac, and then Krita does, and then something like Audacity or Blender does, and then it starts to spiral from there where Open Source and hobby developers en-large decide this crap just isn't worth putting up with for a project they release for free, then users will care. It seems your main objection is just that you don't think that's likely. My assertion is, "Apple won't court developers until they start losing apps." Your assertion is, "Apple is not going to start losing apps." I don't see those two claims as being incompatible, and I don't think your assertion is worth arguing about given that we can just wait a year or two and see what happens. > do you think it will hurt Krita more, or Apple, or users? My broader assertion here is that we're in a narrow period where most people aren't using Mac computers, even for creative work -- so developers have a lot more freedom to make these decisions. I don't know the stats for Krita, but it wouldn't surprise me if the number of Mac users was small. I know that as a game developer and Open Source developer, I'm not going out of my way to support Mac. It wouldn't be worthwhile. In terms of user benefit, I don't feel like Open Source developers have a burden to develop for platforms that are inconvenient. If Mac users really want an Open Source app to support their platform, any one of them can fork the code and pay the notarization fee themselves. Other Open Source developers have different approaches and opinions on that front. Some of them are a lot more charitable than me.
  - Razengan 7y ago
    > My broader assertion here is that we're in a narrow period where most people aren't using Mac computers, even for creative work Apple has been the underdog in the numbers game since 1980. Macs have always had a smaller percentage of worldwide computer users, compared to Windows, but higher than Linux etc. But that number has always been increasing. There are over a 100 million Mac users, and many of them doing creative work. Isn't it the second most-used desktop OS? If someone is going to casually dismiss even a million people, I don't know what to say to them.

Razengan 7y ago

> Is it significant that Photoshop is being shipped for iOS now -- do we expect that professionals will take the platform more seriously because of that? The point that you're trying to make and the point I'm trying to make is effectively the same: Apple platforms have no shortage of creative apps, have never had a shortage, and their library of apps and games is always increasing, not decreasing. If Krita abandons Mac, do you think it will hurt Krita more, or Apple, or users? What's more likely: Will people sell off their Mac and buy a PC just to keep using Krita, or would they rather find one of the many other painting apps available for Macs?

danShumway 7y ago
I think I'm more bullish on Krita's future than you are. Regardless, we're kind of arguing past each other. If Krita abandons Mac and no one else does, then Mac users won't care. If a bunch of indie games abandon Mac, and then Krita does, and then something like Audacity or Blender does, and then it starts to spiral from there where Open Source and hobby developers en-large decide this crap just isn't worth putting up with for a project they release for free, then users will care. It seems your main objection is just that you don't think that's likely. My assertion is, "Apple won't court developers until they start losing apps." Your assertion is, "Apple is not going to start losing apps." I don't see those two claims as being incompatible, and I don't think your assertion is worth arguing about given that we can just wait a year or two and see what happens. > do you think it will hurt Krita more, or Apple, or users? My broader assertion here is that we're in a narrow period where most people aren't using Mac computers, even for creative work -- so developers have a lot more freedom to make these decisions. I don't know the stats for Krita, but it wouldn't surprise me if the number of Mac users was small. I know that as a game developer and Open Source developer, I'm not going out of my way to support Mac. It wouldn't be worthwhile. In terms of user benefit, I don't feel like Open Source developers have a burden to develop for platforms that are inconvenient. If Mac users really want an Open Source app to support their platform, any one of them can fork the code and pay the notarization fee themselves. Other Open Source developers have different approaches and opinions on that front. Some of them are a lot more charitable than me.
- Razengan 7y ago
  > My broader assertion here is that we're in a narrow period where most people aren't using Mac computers, even for creative work Apple has been the underdog in the numbers game since 1980. Macs have always had a smaller percentage of worldwide computer users, compared to Windows, but higher than Linux etc. But that number has always been increasing. There are over a 100 million Mac users, and many of them doing creative work. Isn't it the second most-used desktop OS? If someone is going to casually dismiss even a million people, I don't know what to say to them.